Entertainment For Lively Minds
Artists people keep telling you are 'significant' but, despite a couple of exceptions, you're just not buying it
Posted by Lucas Hare on 17 May 2010 - 11:50pm.
I'll start.
Neil Sedaka.
The Byrds.
The Doors.
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Neil
Sedaka?
That was quick!
Hmmm. Never liked his stuff. I'm very happy to be proved wrong, though.
It's just
that I've never heard him described as "significant" before.
Oh Fraser
I am but a fool...
Try this
And if we add "Solitaire", "Happy Birthday, Sweet Sixteen", "(Is This The Way To) Amarillo" and "Laughter in the Rain" to his hit list, he surely deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Goffin & (the original "Oh, Carol!") King, Leiber & Stoller, Doc Pomus and the others hanging around the water-cooler at the Brill Building.
"Pop genius", perhaps not, but "tip-top pro"? Undoubtedly.
Hard to do
OK, I can appreciate him. A bit. But I still don't think he's up there with the BBWCG (Brill Building Water Cooler Gang).
Significant
Possibly a poor choice of word. But increasingly I hear him referred to as some kind of pop genius a la Carole King, Phil Spector or Brian Wilson. And I just can't see it.
A Mixed Bag
Arctic Monkeys
Paul McCartney (solo)
Blur
Love
The Stooges..
MC5, Velvets.
Get out!
Get out!
This may not make me any friends round these parts but..
Crowded House
Del Amitri
Bruce Springsteen
Sorry! Am I still allowed to be in the Massive?!
Bruuuuuce
I really want to like Springsteen, and blue-collar American rock's usually very much my thing, but for some reason I can't get into him. I admire him, for the effort he puts in on stage if nothing else, but I just don't get what all the fuss is about.
Maybe I can't get beyond the image of him dancing with Courtney Cox in the Dancing in the Dark video...
I agree on Bruce
Just don't get him. He has a very "stadium" sounding voice; gruff and manly. I think I like a bit more irony/campness/"Britishness" in my singers.
One exception is Streets Of Philadelphia: remember that? It was a great little single, the only thing of his I have bought.
The anti-stadium Bruce
Sometimes works.
Ditto (not Beth)
Have never been able to see what all the fuss is about with the self titled Boss. Sure, on stage he puts in a lot of effort, but surely that's only worth an E+ (for effort) rather than an A* for originality, ability etc. My local football team put in a lot of effort week after week, but that doesn't stop them being useless.
I don't think
Crowded house or Del Amitri would be described as significant even here.
THE HORROR, THE HORROR!
I think Crowded House are properly wonderful. I don't know how much of their stuff you've heard - I'd definitely concede that a number of their singles aren't that special - but they are one of my very favourite groups.
If you ever want a playlist of some of their more interesting and beautiful tracks, then just shout.
Shout shut shout!
Spotify a Crowded House comp, please.
Certainly.
I'll throw in some Finn Brothers, solo Neil Finn and Tim Finn and Split Enz as well, as they are all essentially Neil / Tim projects.
I'll post the link here when I've done it...
but in what way are they 'significant'
as opposed to merely (!) enjoyable?
I think they're only significant to me.
Although they didn't change the musical landscape, they have provided the soundtrack to a lot of my life. The Finn Brothers are wonderful songwriters and musicians. They make me very happy indeed.
I have also
been repeatedly pleasured by the Finn boys.
Pics or it didn't happen
;-)
I hope
he burnt them....although I now have a horrible, potentially, indelible image or Neil "Dirty Sanchez" Finn.
I do really like
I do really like Springsteen's music - the anthemic, the Stadium-y, and the quieter reflective stuff.
His voice is not a thing of beauty, I grant you, but I think it fits his music very well. 'Born to Run' and 'Thunder Road' could not have been done as well by anyone else.
Aside from the fact that I do like listening to it on its own musical merits, he is writing about an America that does still exist; it's going away, slowly, but it does still exist. I've mentioned this before, but "Glory Days" sums up small town America perfectly.
I'm not too sure what we mean by "significant", but if we mean "has produced high quality music, in different styles, over a prolonged period" then Springsteen makes it.
Del Amitri? I have *cough* all of what they released. It's good stuff - clever, poignant and tuneful. But even I can't make a case for 'significant'
You've got a friend in me
Doctor Volume. All pretty dull I'd say.
( Although I do like 'Jungleland' a bit )
Bruce is overrated in my view
His songs say nothing to me about my life.
He is also a favourite of my ex-wife. That's not his fault of course, but his music reminds me of a period of my life that I would rather forget. Ditto The Doors and AC-DC, I'm afraid.
My love for the Dels
has no boundaries but significant they ain't.
Pink Floyd
Genesis (all their incarnations), Queen, Yes
midlake
very middling
Led Zeppelin
And noisy tuneless groups in general.
And yet they produced Stairway to Heaven . . .
Significant artists
I have mentioned this on another thread, but I just dont "get" or like the Smiths & / or Morrissey. I have tried to, in my younger day I actively wanted to, but they/ him just dont do it for me.
I shall stand in the corner with my back to the class & wait for the ridicule & mockery.
I'll stand there with you
Never ever got the Smiths. Awful jangly whining stuff.
I'll third that
One of the few bands that I just don't 'get'. I genuinely can't see what people saw in them.
Just the usual things really:
Great tunes, great musicianship, great lyrics, a revolutionary tendency, a belief that pop music is precious, a fine sense of occasion and a fierce intelligence.
I just don't see any of that in them...
Different strokes etc
But the Smiths were amazing
Surely?
Fleet Foxes...
...Brian Wilson for Dummies.
I love Brian Wilson and really like Fleet Foxes
And I can´t help but think you do have a point. But: BW for dummies is still better than most artists for sharpies.
Brian "bloody" Wilson?
I hate Brian Wilson. And the Beach Boys. And Fleet Foxes, for that matter.
I like Mumford & Sons, though, so what do I know?
In no particular order.
Patti Smith.
The Grateful Dead.
The New York Dolls.
It's not that I don't get the part they have played in musical history, they just leave me totally unmoved.
Simple
Greatful Dead
Jefferson Airplane
Duran Duran
Fleetwood Mac
i fear it's a sign of age
But I saw the much-lauded National on Jools the other night and I just laughed at them.
Strange reaction
I can understand that they might not be your thing, but am genuinely surprised that you found them amusing!
Ah! Another opportunity..
.. to express my dislike of:
The Manic Street Preachers
and my inability to understand the fuss about:
Depeche Mode
The Beach Boys
Ian Brown
Edit - Forgot to mention Arcade Fire but then they seem to have fallen off of everyone's radar recently.
Love
As usual, the answer is Love.
Hugely influential on their peers - from Hendrix through to Zep - and lauded by Punk - and still echoing through acts like Arctic Monkeys and MGMT.
And yet, and yet. Cannot listen to them - though over the years I've tried on many occasions.
"Alone Again Or" is fabulous and "Maybe The People Would Be The Times Or Between Clark And Hilldale" is a pretty much a blueprint for many kinds of quirky pop that followed - but their reputation and mystique outweighs the recorded reality in my view.
Comrade Joe
Led Zeppelin.
New York punk/art rock groups.
Anything emanating from Manchester post-60s.
Madonna.
But the winner in this category by an alarming distance....The Clash.
Blimey!
Sucks to be you! Different strokes and all that, but blimey!
>
Sucks to be me?
Well I'm on me holidays on Thursday and my list doesn't include anyone from the greatest era for popular music which is the mid-50s through to the end of the 60s (i.e. the release of 'Led Zeppelin').....and 'does' include Mick Jones, Madonna and Morrissey.
Job done, I'd say.
Television
Tom Verlaine et al. Never got it, probably never will.
The White Stripes similarly, discussed as if they were the Second Coming - er, no, actually.
"Marquee Moon" is one of
my Top 20 LPs Ever. It is stunning. The rest of Mr. Verlaine's oeuvre, however, really is so so.
You Bastards
You've just dissed my entire collection.
Apart
from Sedaka......won't hear a bad word against him.
Just three then...
Radiohead (I've tried to like them, honest I have)
Björk (horrible caterwauling)
Happy Mondays (embarrassingly poor)
The Mondays (Mk I) were great...
...as were their albums (excepting ...Yes Please! which was rotten, apart from Stinkin Thinkin), all three of which managed to be more inventive and diverse than most groups' entire careers.
Oh good, a no-justification-required spleen vent
Right:
Paul Weller - self important twat
Billy Bragg - as above
Bono - as above
Face it guys, you got into music for the women and the fame, stop boring the arse off us trying to be noble.
Stop boring the arse off ME with your moaning.
Why can't some people appreciate more than one type of artist? We all know the subject matter of the one's you mention, and I for one wouldn't want it any other way, they're passionate artists and it's what fires them up! In the same way that I wouldn't want to hear AC/DC without a heavy dose of schoolboy humor and innuendo. or Cypress Hill without the 'oh did I mention I take drugs', preoccupation. There's plenty of people doing the 'throw your hands in the air, like you just don't care', I find it reassuring that some do, although it's obvious from your post that you don't believe this. I don't ever want to become that cynical.
No justification required, you say. Maybe there is, maybe you should ask yourself what that's all about.
here ya go
Bob Dylan - some good songs, but always done better by other artists.
The Beach Boys - all that "woo-oo-oo" harmonising is like fingernails down a blackboard.
Prefab Sprout - fey, insipid Eighties pop; why aren't they filed safely away with Kajagoogoo?
(Do I have to leave the Massive now?)
Byrd Dylan
"Bob Dylan - some good songs, but always done better by other artists."
Indeed, and most notably by The Utterly Brilliant Byrds, whom Lucas - our original poster here - doesn't get at all. Well, I just had to say that I *adore* The Byrds: Mr. Tambourine Man, The Chimes Of Freedom, He Was A Friend Of Mine, My Back Pages . . .
The Byrds
I can see why they're important. And I love I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better, Hickory Wind...basically the stuff that you can't really hear Roger McGuinn on.
Actually, it's probably safe to say that I really like about five or six of their songs. But, largely, I find them a bit vacuous.
But
As much as I can see why people would like The Byrds' version, all those Dylan 1966 versions are the ones for me every time:
Animal Collective
and Grizzly Bear turgid no tunes overrated
Not heard the former
But I'm with you on Grizzly Bear. My bro-in-law got me their album for Chrimbo and it's bloody awful.
Elvis is the most obvious, I
Elvis is the most obvious, I guess. Also, Frank Sinatra and any other rat-pack / swing music (my most loathed genre). As for current bands I'd say Wilco or Midlake, or any of those other boring beardy Americana-merchants.
I confess
to not getting:
Led Zeppelin (mostly racket)
Rolling Stones (mostly samey)
Pink Floyd (just get on with it)
Queen (uncool kids showing off)
Syd Barratt
I'm a Pink Floyd fan. I want to like Syd. I appreciate his role in the band in the early days, I really do. I admire the way that David Gilmour stood by him financially and behind the scenes when Syd "retired." I've got the Syd solo records. I've played them numerous times. But I just don't get it.
Neil Young
I only really like Heart Of Gold.
Van Morrison
Ancient blues singers. I know it's where it all began but it just doesn't do it for me.
Sun-Ra. Unlistenable.
Today's RnB
Re: Ancient blues singers.
You possibly just haven't found one you like: Robert Johnson* does nothing for me, but I love Charley Patton.
* Add him to the thread, please...
Today's RnB!
Thumbs aloft there Mr Centres.
My question is this. When faced with 60's RnB in the actual 60's did people like ourselves not get it as well or is this a modern day thing? There are very few modern rnb tunes I like (some Destiny's Child, No Diggity, some D'Angelo, struggling a bit now) but the problem I have is there's very little rhythm and no blues in the modern stuff. R Kelly I consider to be Satan's own emissary on earth but it seems no matter what he does, he sells. Even when he comes up with crud like this...
Young Word people, please explain the appeal of modern rnb, new jack swing, or whatever its called. I need to know...
Pregnant? Poor
'let's get down to some sexin''
I never realised that R Kelly and crew had such an interest in determining the gender of livestock and poultry. I think it is admirable that they take time out from their busy schedule of being playas to help out down on the farm.
And Yet, It Can Become This:
Sam Amidon's breathtaking cover nearly prompts me to check out R. Kelly's material. That said, D'Angelo, Maxwell, Eryhkah Badu and the moderne R&B contingent have their moments, with an alarmingly short shelf-life: Lauryn Hill went from cross-genre delights to a hectoring drag in the span of two discs, Macy Gray squandered her goodwill over two draggy follow-ups, and so on.
Christ Almighty
That's so bad it's good. Didn't Lenny Henry do a routine like this in the 1980s?
I have never heard of Sam Amidon...
... but that is fabulous. If he can make I Believe I Can Fly or Pregnant sound good though, then I will bow to his talent!
I'll never deny that there's the odd modern RnB tune that's good (hell, does Kelis count as Hip Hop or RnB? She's definately had her moments), it's just taken as a whole a lot of it seems dreadful: over polished, lacking tunes, full of unpleasant people going on about stuff they own or the vast quantities of people they have sex with via the medium of auto tune and genuinely it leaves me feeling awfully cold. Whereas old rnb seemed to have warmth, heart, often wit, definately pain. How a genre can change to such an extent is a source of bewilderment to me, unless we have to think of modern rnb as a new, completely different genre.
Hmmm
Kinks - lot of dross in there with the few gems. That'll get be drummed out I 'spose.
PiL and Devo - one or two hit wonders (but I do love those hits)
Agree with all the above on Zeppelin, Bjork, McCartney-solo and Weller-post-Jam.
On the other hand, Springsteen's had a fair run of good material (most would probably give their right arm for a 10th of that). And I wouldn't have said Del Amitri or Crowded House were 'significant', in the sense of earth moving style beacons and taste changers.
"The Kinks - a lot of dross in there" - how dare you, sir?
You, sir, are a cad, a scoundrel, a bounder and a rotter of the first order. It's metaphorical pistols at dawn...
No ... not really. But the Kinks really were an incredibly good band. Indeed, in the duco01 world they hold the title of second greatest British band of all time. Exhibits A to E, m'lud - five albums of sustained creative brilliance:
Face to Face
Something else
VGPS
Arthur
Lola vs Powerman
God save the Kinks!
...and still underrated, even now.
Ray Davies really was a one-man Lennon & McCartney.
Paul McCartney
is a one-man Lennon & McCartney. John was good, but not that good.
Thanks duco01!
I´ve been listening to The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society for two days straight now thanks to you. Absolutely beautiful album. Considering to have a listen to the bonus tracks on disc three for only the second time since I bought it. Have (another) arrow up.
It seems to be the only studio album of theirs that didn´t chart on either side of the pond. Strange.
Ola's right
Again!
I think VGPS is a wonderful album. And The Kinks were too.
Here Come The Brickbats
This is a Sacred Cows thread basically isn't it? Time to diss the undissable...
The Smiths (Steven Patrick Morrissey is the most irritating man alive, though I have a sneaky regard for Johnny Marr's work with other people)
Bob Dylan (I think he's alright; but nothing more)
Neil Young (hard to comment on his songwriting skills, as I just can't get past his horrible voice)
EBTG
Never got Everything But The Girl although I'm not sure how "significant" they were
.
ELO
10cc
Supertramp
Bands that, IMO, never really got over side 2 of Abbey Road.
Perhaps not the best day to raise this..
Joy Division.
Their entire output was a godawful, miserable dirge. And that includes Love Will Tear Us Apart. Deemed hugely important and influential by lots of music journos who were originally the lank, moody sixth-formers that Unknown Pleasures and the rest was designed to impress.
What's to get?
Strikes me you could replace the words get or got with like or liked.
No one has yet mentioned
Tom Waits.
Some of his stuff is OK, but I don't understand the reverence so many people have for him.
Tom
I didn't mention Tom Waits because I think he's a genius (viz. Small Change & Rain Dogs). That said, I do agree that he's done a lot of rubbish, too. Who hasn't?
Too many to mention
A short list - I'll think of some more in 5 minutes. The great thing is that it just doesn't matter. There is so much great music either in my collection, being performed live, streaming from Spotify or just waiting to be written that I can happily bypass the following:
Led Zeppelin
Pink Floyd
Yes
Genesis
Mike Oldfield
Jethro Dull
Bob Dylan
U2
Radiohead
Coldplay
Chemical Brothers
Gram...
Gram sodding Parsons. Surely the most overrated artist ever.
...(glad to see no-one's mentioned The Fall yet,we must all be fans)
Heavens yes!
Along with Moby Grape and Buffalo Springfield, Mr Parsons' oeuvre was one of the major disappointments of my "You must listen to this legendary group" CD-buying phase.
I understand
Gram Parsons made some magnificent records and is one of my all time favourite artists. His records have the rare capacity to be able to be played whatever time of day it is or mood I'm in. However, I can very easily see how you can have your view.
.
Elvis Costello - 3 songs tops that I would miss if they were made extinct.
Van bloody Morrison
Love - see Sheev ^^
Divine Comedy
Manics - see ^^
The Clash - see ^^
"Getting Artists"
Assume we are talking about artists who you don't actively dislike, but ust don't understand the excitement they cause others. So...
Paul Simon
Richard Thompson (even after listening to the best of Spotify playlist issued by RFH for his upcoming Meltdown)
Fairport Convention
Any other acts of the Hey Nonny Nonny persuasion so popular in these parts (admirable in concept, completely bloodless and dull in reality, sorry just not in touch with my inner folkie)
Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Any solo album by George Harrision - especially All Things Must Pass
Anything involving David Gilmour post- Wish You Were Here - the least exciting axe hero ever? (Oh sorry, forgot I already mentioned Richard Thompson..)
Frank Zappa
Queen
Dire Straits and anything involving Mark Knopfler
"Getting Artists"
Assume we are talking about artists who you don't actively dislike, but ust don't understand the excitement they cause others. So...
Paul Simon
Richard Thompson (even after listening to the best of Spotify playlist issued by RFH for his upcoming Meltdown)
Fairport Convention
Any other acts of the Hey Nonny Nonny persuasion so popular in these parts (admirable in concept, completely bloodless and dull in reality, sorry just not in touch with my inner folkie)
Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Any solo album by George Harrision - especially All Things Must Pass
Anything involving David Gilmour post- Wish You Were Here - the least exciting axe hero ever? (Oh sorry, forgot I already mentioned Richard Thompson..)
Frank Zappa
Queen
Dire Straits and anything involving Mark Knopfler
Neil Sedaka? :)
Nirvana (whisper/scream/whisper/scream)
The Smiths/Misserry (whine, whine, whine - but like Marr´s guitar)
Sex Pistols (invented punk? ruined it, more likely)
Madonna (nipple flash tourettes, not even her fans seem to care about the music)
Joni Mitchell (something with the voice and the know-it-all)
A lot of the prog of the seventies, even if I´m gettin more and more into it. D´oh!
Radiohead
The Flaming Lips
Nirvana
Madonna? Not caring about the music??
Vogue, Into the Groove, Holiday, Like A Prayer? 4 of the finest pop songs ever written. Surely.
Having seen them on Later...
The National - blimey, aren't they exciting;
Diane Birch - if she was ugly, nobody would be interested;
Band Of Horses - Band of Arses more like - where's the tunes?
The
Beatles
you beat me to it
Mozart.
Too many notes.
Really?
Which ones?
Watch
Amadeus.
I did
;-)
I could fully sympathise
with F.Murray Abraham.I want to kill off Tom Hulse about 2 seconds after he appears on screen.
2 seconds?
You are very patient.
I heard on Swedish radio that it is very possible that Mozart suffered from ADHD. I can´t explain how they had come to this conclusion because I barely understood it in Swedish. I bet it had something to do with, like, science and stuff like that.
David Bowie.
Nothing but a charlatan to my ears.
As usual
you are absolutlely right.
And the company he keeps is disgraceful too. Picasso. Orson Welles. Miles Davis. Tony Blair.
To be a truly great charlatan you have to be really good at what you do.
Beat me to it
Still, The Laughing Gnome is quite good.
Question......
Following someone mentioning The Kinks (?!?!) maybe the question should be reversed:
Is there an actually artist out there to which no one has a grudge?
Don't get me wrong, I love having a grudge against approximately 99% of pop music ever made.
I give you......BUDDY HOLLY.
Purely as research is there anyone on this site who has never liked or never got the significance of him?
Straight two minutes pop songs with clear lyrics, a smile on his face, bit geeky, young, kid next door, influenced loads of groups.
If not Buddy is there anyone to whom this applies?
Sly Stone?
Spencer Davis Group?
Kate Bush?
Delia Derbyshire?
It May Not Change Your Mind...
... the blog A Deeper Shade of Soul (first brought to my attention by the aforementioned Mr. Hare of this very parish) ranked Springsteen's noughties output into what anounts to a very satifying playlist: http://adeepershadeofsoul.blogspot.com/2009/12/s.html.
It's my impression naysayers equate Springsteen with bombast n' bluster, a fair charge in some cases, but even Born to Run has its quieter passages. More recently, Springsteen just might be recapturing the ramshackle fun of albums like The Wild The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle. Check out The Seeger Sessions if you want to hear Springsteen freed from the task of some sort of musical State of the Union address. You might even like it.
The thought of
Springsteen's voice being more exposed due to the lack of pomposity behind him is quite frankly, frightening. At least in most of his 'songs' there is so much background noise his voice sometimes gets lost in the mix. My worst nightmare, Springsteen unplugged. Just him and an acoustic guitar. Sorry, but this is about artists you just don't get, and he's mine.
My threepence worth.
The Smiths & Morrissey.
radiohead - music to slit your wrists by.
Lou Reed & Velvet underground - ditto.
I could go on -
ok so I will:
Agree with previous listing of Mozart - too clever by half.
Dame Bowie - dressing up is not rock'n'roll.
Brit Pop -
I'm showing my age - time for the cocoa and bed.
Before I go:
Bozo I mean Bono - ruined the makings of a good band.
No matter how big a fan I´m of Bowie
I can´t help but laugh about the dressing up. Many others have failed, no matter how awfully hard they tried. Cheers!
The Dame
was never about 'rock 'n' roll'- he was about.....GENOCIDE!
The Libertines
I know that they get nary a mention around these parts, but I sometimes feel like I missed the second coming, such is the hoo-ha bestowed upon them.
Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. Others are just massively over-hyped.
*sharp intake of breath*
Well, I'd just like to express my love for:
Neil Sedaka
Blur
Radiohead
Crowded House
which have all been singled out in posts \above... if any of you would like a Spotify playlist to demonstrate why I think the above bands are so wonderful, I'd be delighted to oblige.
Those bands and musicians are all pretty significant to my life; even if not to popular music (or the Massive) as a whole.
And, while I'm here, the bands I've never quite got, even though I know they're significant:
Pink Floyd (having said that I like Piper at the Gates of Dawn, I don't get the later stuff)
Neil Young
The Rolling Stones
Fleetwood Mac.
Happy to be enlightened on any of the above!
Glad to see
several mentions of Led Zeppelin in the above.
I've tried, I really have. I've heard it said they invented heavy metal - like that was a good thing. Think of all the bombast and hobbit-bothering that came as a result of that.
I understand the genius of Page and Bonham - although both frankly needed someone to have a word in their ear and say, maybe we could keep the kitchen sink plumbed in for this one - but Plant's screeching and Valhalla I am coming, lemon-dribble drivel is just to much for me. Sorry!
Oh, Trampled Underfoot is good. And Kashmir. And Rock'n'Roll. I'll stop now.
Being a big fan I agree with you on the lyrics.
Which is why I don´t listen to what Plant sings about. I´ve grown to like the screeching, though.
But IF there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now.
Now I´m off to listen to Physical Graffiti. Custard Pie air guitar opportunity knocks.
Led Zeppelin are NOT responsible for heavy metal!
Led Zeppelin - a band I've loved almost obsessively since I was 9 - have long been lumbered with that lazy untruth much-used by music journalists who have never listened to them.
Zeppelin sounded the way they did because the members of the group listened to the widest possible range of music. English folk, rockabilly, blues, soul, R&B, jazz, classical, reggae, funk, 'world music', even surf groups for gawd's sake... all of this was digested by Messers Page, Plant, Bonham and Jones and re-imagined as a new kind of music... Led Zeppelin music.
The cloth-eared dolts who followed them listened to... Led Zeppelin. Through narrowing their listening in this way they took the roar and the volume, the shrieking and the riffs but forgot about acoustic guitars, melody, nuanced arrangements and subtlety.
It's not their fault that Warrant exist. Really it isn't.
You're right
but the fact remains that, despite those influences, Communication Breakdown inspired leather-clad, Flying V-totting Brummies to come up with Paranoid, and before you knew it 747's were coming down in the night like no one's business.
Nice understated Saxon
Nice understated Saxon reference there... respect! Was there ever a band who even in their heyday s0 looked like they were past it? Happy memories from the school disco!
I love Zep
- and a little bit of Burn era Purp - and that's it as far as Raak is concerned.
They belong with Cream, Traffic and Free - in that golden period of British rock - blending all the styles that PC alludes to above. Producing something distinct and new in the process. Unlike the dismal hordes following in their wake - who took the sreech and swagger and bombast and none of the dynamics, poise or swing.
Zep veer between the vaguely ridiculous to the frankly preposterous. And they certainly can make an unholy racket. But I love the racket they make.
Bob Marley
Just don't get it!
Never understood the bestowed greatness of Nirvana
Never got the apparent importance of The Stone Roses
Agree about Marley.
Even though I own some of his stuff, he's not a patch on Jimmy Cliff.
Nirvana were simply a result of America finally 'getting' Punk, weren't they?
Finally, while the Roses ultimately disappointed, for that brief period surrounding the release of their first album everything was perfect - even Ian Brown's vocals sounded good. Consequently, they were a huge influence on the likes of Oasis, who took their dropped baton and ran with it - whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinion...
Forget the Stone, Mind the Guns
Having already interjected above, I should add that Guns N' Roses have escaped me completely. Maybe it's the N'; maybe it's the screeching, perhaps it's the unmemorable tunes or the glamorization of doing virtually nothing, but I can't imagine a major group who means less to me.
We have a winner
My all time least favourite major band. Probably not helped by the fact that in the late 80's I had a friend from LA who had seen them many times. She assured me they would be massive and I scoffed. Then she played me some of their stuff and I scoffed some more. Everything about them is second-hand.
G n R
I liked them. They were, for all the posturing, a half decent bubblegum rock band. Same as The Darkness were. Not to be taken as a serious muso act. Izzy Stradlin is one of the great lost guitarists
"Not to be taken as a serious muso act"
Just a shame they forgot to tell Axl.
I wasn't aware
that Guns 'n Roses were of any significance at all.
For my money...
...Appetite for Destruction is one of the best hard rock albums ever recorded, and would make my top ten, regardless of genre, every single time.
Most of their output thereafter is bobbins, though.
I know the point isn't to argue ...
... but to indulge in idle but enjoyable taxonomy...
But how can people not see how FUNNY the Smiths were? I'm guessing its a Southern thing, maybe from being a reformed Southerner myself. Fine if they leave you cold and Steven Patrick is an ocean going berk much of the time but to write it all off as whining is extraordinary. All the frustration, exhilaration, humour (lots of it), curiosity, torture of growing up. Their music and attitude was joyous reproach in the imbecile consumerist pop culture of the mid 80's
Deep breath - I do definitely agree the way that mediocre acts drift into the Pantheon Of Legends is depressing and lazy - the current Word issue has a good article on how decades get summed up by utterly crass shorthand - the 70's and 80's were a lot scarier and more interesting to go through than you would guess from the way, for instance that whenever the 80's are mentioned on TV we get a shot of bloody Duran Duran, a yuppie, and a mobile phone the size of a microwave oven.
Misserry often keeps tongue in cheek
About 50 per cent of my problem is that a lot of his fans are teenagers (mentally, if nothing else) who take him seriously and really think they are the center of the universe.
But I´m ready to be misunderstood on this. No one understands me, apart from my books and my flowers. Oh, wait.
And how can you be that pudgy when only eating carrots? THAT is a mystery.
Muse
I love the idea of Muse. I've read interviews with Matt Bellamy and he appears to be an intelligent, articulate bloke. I like the fact that the music has ambition and scope and adventure and fun and humour and also a serious side. Everything about the band makes we want to like it. So why does the music leave me cold?
My guess
It's too studied - striving to hard for significance: a surefire way to fail.
Now Little Richard, on the other hand: just strove to entertain, about a zillion times more significant (and entertaining) than Muse.
Funny old world, innit?
Woo!
It always pleases me that a post that invites us to express our devout grumpiness often gives way to more positive commentary. I've not delved too deep into the L. Richard catalogue (a few Specialty comps, the Okeh re-recordings, the odd Warner Bros-era track; I suppose that amounts to a bit), but - like the dear old Bonzo Doo-dah Dog Band - listening to Little Richard never fails to bring a smile to my face. For example:
I possess
music by pretty much all of the artists mentioned above, with the definite exception of Mr Sedaka and at various times have "got" it or I would like to think I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.
How much of it do I "get" now? Hhhmmm.....a pretty short list, as musical tastes evolve over time.
How many artistes are essential? For how many do I beat a path to Amazon upon hearing of a new album? Not many, but would include:
Crowded House/Finns (hi Hannah!)
XTC/Partridge
Josh Ritter
Muse
Drive By Truckers
Guillemots
North Mississippi Allstars
Howdy!
As well as the shared Crowded House / Finns obsession, I am also nuts about XTC and will shell out for pretty much anything. (I even have the Fuzzy Warbles box set).
Ditto
Re. XTC: what they said.
Aahhhh
but do you have the Mr Partridge Dub Album and the Monstrance improvisation album. I have to say those two don't get regular playtime in the plaza de toros but I wouldn't be a proper fan if I didn't own them.
I saw XTC back in 1978 around the time that White Music came out, sadly the only time I ever saw them. Would crawl over broken glass if they ever reformed. Andy Partridge would also be a guest at my fantasy dinner party too....now there's an idea for a thread.
"Take Away/The Lure of Salvage"
Would that be the "Take Away/The Lure of Salvage" LP? I got it as an 18th birthday present in 1980, played it once, and have never played it since.
Still love XTC, though. Saw them at the Rainbow once, supported by Yachts. They were great. How could they not have been?
Yep
The CD I got is that plus another dub thing he did around the same time....vaguely amusing playing "spot the XTC snippet" buried under vast amounts of echo but hasn't moved off its spot on the shelf for a long time.
*envious face*
OK, you both have Partridge material that I hadn't even heard of.
I bow down before you both. I am not worthy.
Move on - nothing to see
You really aren't missing anything. I have the Lure of The Salvage vinyl as well and in the past 30 years it has probably been played 5 times. If I remember correctly, it's supposed to be dub versions of Go2 but it's pretty much impossible to tell. It's one for fans of experimental dub rather than XTC I don't even know if it's any good within it's field.
Oh do get up woman
you're showing yourself up.....save your grovelling around for some music worthy of it.
For example, somewhere I have MP3's of an XTC session they did when drunk which is amusing as it's basically Partridge mucking about and leading the band through heavy metal and blues improvisations. If you're interested....??
Am I interested?
OF COURSE I AM!
Thank you muchly. I shall DM you my details.
The correct response is, of course
...while you're down there...
Maybe it's because I'm not british
but I never understood why everybody loved Oasis.
Some of us didn't
I thoroughly loathed them. Still do.
Easy.
The Clash.
The Clash.
The Clash.
I didn´t know
there are three different band called The Clash.
Hank Williams
I've tried, I really have, and I'm fully aware of his importance in the history of country, but he just doesn't click with me...
That's OK
"history of country"!!!! I would suggest "history of popular music" given that he pretty much invented Rock and Roll. Listen to say, Dave Edmunds' version of "Hey Good Looking" and suggest that it's not Rock and Roll then re-listen to the original and see how close it is.
Having said that, I think he's one of those hugely influential people that even if you like the people that he has influenced you won't necessarily like him. There are others suggested above that fall into the same category. Bob Dylan & Robert Johnson among them.
Is Loretta Lynn "significant"?
Thank heavens for country music. "Significance" doesn't matter a jot. Doing songs that connect with people does.
Is this the same as...
... One's just popping out for a spot of shopping?
I'll go for a whole genre...
One that's dominated the 'serious' music press for at least decade - Americana or Alt Country.
I've been a sucker and own 4 Wilco CDs, 3 Lucinda Williams, 3 Gillian Welch, 2 Ryan Adams, 3 Hold Steady (are they Americana?), 2 Drive-by Truckers, 2 Richmand Fontaine, Whiskeytown, The National, Bon Iver, Midlake, Decemberists (if they aren't actually American, they are in spirit) and more besides. All absolutely average (maybe Car Wheels On A Gravel Road is slightly above average & I can tolerate a quarter a Hold Steady or a half a Fleet Foxes).
I do like Van Lear Rose, though, and think everything Jack White touches is magic. I also appreciate Drive By Truckers and Midlake's efforts as backing bands for other groups.
Fleet Foxes?
I suppose you are right, The
I suppose you are right, The Fleet Foxes are folk rather than Alt Country. That's the trouble with genres these days - there are so many and the edges between them are blurred, I get confused.
I don't understand
You've got 20+ albums there, and you say you don't like them. Why keep on buying? You're pigeon holing artists into a genre they wouldn't recognise.
Lucinda Williams is more likely to claim she's a blues / folk singer. Gillian Welch sees herself as continuing a tradition of American music stretching back 60 - 70 years. I'm not sure how Ryan Adams classifies himself, but it wouldn't be as either Americans or Alt-country. And so on.
So you don't like them. That's your taste, But you can hardly put them all in the same bag and say I don't like these artists because you classify them into a particular, vaguely delineated, genre when musically they are nothing like each other.
I've finally learnt
my lesson. They have been accumulated over a number of years and only represent a small fraction of my CD buying.
As for Americana and who might be counted as such, try
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana_(music)
although, I accept that wikipaedia may not be the most accurate. It is my belief that the genre was introduced to the UK by a CD issued with another magazine.
The Genre:
Americanacoma.
I'm with you all the way.
A whole genre ??
Uncut music ??
Bobbins
Bands I don't get
Definitely Fleet Foxes. And Radiohead Bought at least three albums on the strength of recommendations/rave reviews ete etc. Nope.Not me
And Nirvana (but I just borrowed their stuff before deciding I didn't like it)
I'm Backing Britain!
I've just noticed the mention of Moby Grape and Buffalo Springfield above.
As a 60s obsessive, can I add that the various U.S. groups of the era always come up way short in comparison to their British counterparts.
The above two, Jefferson Airplane, Big Brother, Grateful Dead are all spectacularly average compared to Syd's Floyd, Fairport's first LP, The Idle Race, Small Faces, Tomorrow et al circa '66-'69.
And no U.S. group came anywhere near the psych madness of Family's first single.......then again, neither did Family.
Hmmmm....
Just listening to Moby Grape. Wow.
over-rated music
I'll add to the voice of dissent about:
Americana - The revenge of Bob Harris. Still boring, dull, and hideously white.
West Coast 60s music (bar Santana, Doors, Zappa, Steve Miller) - That folk rock and noodling is a worse advert for LSD than bum trips.
Avant-garde noise as cool. (my arse - bloody students messing around, more like).
Hideously white?
Would you think it acceptable to describe some music as 'hideously black'?
Red Hot Chilli Peppers
have never done it for me either. Can't put my finger on it, maybe it's the songs, I don't think they're very good, to be honest, characterless even. Guns and Roses? Yeurghhhh!!!! Afraid the Smiths never got me going either and as for Fleet Foxes? Could you possibly get more feeble?
Red Hot Chilli Peppers...
The house band for the more lunkheaded of the lunkheads at Muscle Beach. Living proof that excessive testosterone, finely-honed 'abs', a surplus of tattoos and a fondness for funk jams is not a good recipe for making music. Although Under the Bridge was quite pleasant.
I like this thread, right...
where do I start?
Manchester. Pretty much anything that has ever come out of there is a load of old bollocks. Over rated, over blown, depressing, rainy bilge, that people lap up 'cause it's like real and all drugged up man. Load of old bollocks.
Bob Dylan. I wish he'd shut up.
The Doors. Better off dead.
Elvis Presley and Costello. One or two good un's in return for a skip full of cack.
Van Morrison. Who else would get away with being such a twat?
Pavement. Don't know anything by them but just know I wouldn't like them.
Anything elses that other people say is really good but I don't like.
I like your style
I can't agree with all that you said but I love the way you said it.
My favourite of your put-downs is Pavement. I don't know anyone who has actually listened to them, either.
I like them
I love pavements records... well I love the basic versions, the overblown expanded versions are very hard work and now, having seen them last week I think they should stick to the studio.
I have to ask
Have you actually heard them or do you just love them?
No, I listen regularly
I've got them all, I have about 3 albums on my ipod at any time and I play them regularly. I took advantage of a brief window on Emusic when they were available here so I got the lot for about £10. I have to admit that they pretty much passed me by first time round (I only heard the singles but never investigated further) so it doesn't surprise me if anyone else missed them too but they are missing out. There's a "best of" out at the moment that looks like it will be what most people want.
I quite like Stephen Malkmus's solo stuff as well.
I have heard the Jicks and like them
I like the laziness in the way it seems to barely hold together. Like it could fall apart at any time.
Should I perhaps give Pavement a chance? Where should I start? Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain seems to be the best known.
Bright
I think "Brighten the Corners" is the most accessible "proper" album.
I just post to say I appreciate it
I found Brighten on Spotify. I´ve heard it a couple of times now and I like it. It´s not the kind of album that jumps out and grabs you, but it´s nice music to listen to while having a cup of tea. I mean that in a good way. The songs kind of unfold one by one.
Sandy Denny
I really should do - I like everything around, betwixt and behind her, but the moment she starts singing... I just can't see it.
And in case anyone were thinking that posting a YouTube clip up and inviting me to reconsider my opinion in light of it counts as a cogent argument, I can tell you that it doesn't.
*itches to post "Who Knows Where the Time Goes?"*
*refrains*
This?
What did I just say...?
This is the odd thing - Simon Nicol singing this can move me to tears, give me Chris While and I'm in bits, but once "That'll Be The Day" on Fairport Live kicks in and I can't get to the skip button quick enough. I didn't say I was proud.
wonderful version
any idea what album it's from?
Not a clue, sorry
It sounds like a demo of sorts, doesn´t it?
OASIS!!!
With the exception of Supersonic (then and not now...)...second hand rip off rock with their influences dangling off their sleeves like bingo wings. They put rock music back 20 years.
Coldplay: bland as all bland can be.
Manics: self-important nonsense for students
Pink Floyd post-Dark Side. Once they'd made the most fantastic sounding record ever...they had nowhere to go except up their arse.
Moby: No talent.
Nirvana: The Pixies did it so much better...and with humour.
You can leave alone:
Pavement....one of the most original bands around...fantastic live as well. They are just enjoying themselves..ditto The Flaming Lips...great fun live band and talented musicians.
The Smiths....iconic, funny, original, authentic, great songwriting.
Neil Young: Just driven by the music...no compromises along the way, just makes the records he wants. He's made more great albums than the vast majority of the sacred cows listed here....Stones and Beatles included.
Eric Clapton
Technically, he's got it - but no soul.
So agree
Techinically he is perfect. but for feeling ,listen to Rory Gallagher. That's a real guitarist because some times he was bad, but when he was good, he was very very ....
Ahem
When was Rory ever bad? I have loads of his albums and saw him loads of times and I never heard him hit a cluncker on electric guitar, acoustic guitar, mandolin, slide dobro, harp, frequently several together.
BTW I wouldn't say Clapton's technique is flawless, he's mostly a feel player.
Clapton...
Only gig I've ever walked out of. You are spot on. I may as well have stayed at home and put the record on. Very clever but utterly clinical.Not what I want in the blues.
Captain Beefheart
Trout Mask Replica is great for annoying the neighbours, scaring the cat and discussing as a "remarkable album, like nothing you've ever heard, immense reputation" etc, but having listened to it a couple of times, I feel no need to do so again.
For me, it has to be...
... the funky pop midget that is Prince. As a song, I adore Raspberry Beret - but the rest is decent stuff and not much else. I just don't see why he is lauded as a genius...
There's
not one iota of kindness in you. Sign of the times (not quite the whole album but not far off it) Sometimes it snows in April and Kiss. I mean, KISS!
Prince
I know what you mean. As much as I love the song Sign Of The Times, I just couldn't get on with the rest of the album. And the purists will kill me, but I prefer Warren Zevon's version of Raspberry Beret that he cut with REM.
http://open.spotify.com/track/0g9Rr9ny4Ps8bhSVvggm45
In my experience...
... the Prince 'thing' seems to be gender specific. All the devotee's I've known have always been women - men regard him as an oddity.
well...sporting the XY
chromosone as I do - I do think he's near genius. Near, but not quite. Very significant though.
I think the issue with Prince is his output is too prolific and the genius/near-genius moments get reduced by association with too much dross.
That's really not true
Judging by the attendance at his concerts, contributors to fan forums, the critics and my own, ahem, 'equipment', I'd suggest there's a substantial amount of man love for Mr Nelson.
And the rest of you, you're all wrong. So there.
Three letters
R E M
Oh dear, Dave - really?
not even that one that goes '...if you believe they put a man on the moon'? (winkysmiley)
John Martyn
I've tried, I really have...too mumbly though...
"...mrghgl ter plaghhh mrbblrbrle...SOLID AIR..."
>
Yep, as I don't like that Echoplex thing of his I've listened, on many occasions, to his first two LPs and the two with Beverley Martyn.
I don't dislike them but.....let's put it this way.....a great deal more talented acts in the 60s were afforded less time to 'get it right' by their record labels.
I mean, The Creation never made an LP for the British market and John had put out five by the time he was 23!
How does that happen?
Abba
Despite the high quality songwriting and the obvious tension and angst bound up in some of their lyrics, Abba leave me almost completely cold.
Dismal, tedious, pretentious but erudite
Elvis Costello that is. God knows I've tried but talk about the waste of a career. And his 'experiments' of the last 10-odd years (eg The Brodsky Quartet) rank among the worst examples of artistic hubris I think I've ever not had to endure. At least Israel has been spared his nonsense....
Queen - absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever. If anyone can explain this advertising man's/sports highlights musical wet dream made flesh, letters to the usual address
Joanna Newsom - just to bring it right up to date. She's got a HARP! Kerazee! Sub Joni mitchell post-KBush warbling bolted to lumpen folk rock twiddling = 3CD set and substantial kerching from chin stroking hipster/lecher interface seduced by 'positive' reviews by those in the journalistic 'trade' bewitched and desperate to fill said Mitchell/Bush void with anything.
Israel?
Are Elvis's albums not available there?
.....and the winner is.......
....and the winner is.....Eminem!
The praise heaped on him, by otherwise 'serious' music journos, baffles me. There's talk of genius, of him being some latter-day hip-hop equivalent of The Bard. Contains great wit and poetic social comment, apparently. I, on the other hand think he's little more than Vanilla Ice with bells on. (Not a cunningly disguised anti hip-hop rant, by-the-way, i can do P.E., Snoop, Wu-Tang, Cypress Hill etc etc, no problem.)
Post-1980s rap puzzles me
In the early days, it seemed to be about rapping in time with the music, using the words to complement the backing - look at Flash, Run DMC, EPMD, Eric B/Rakim, Public Enemy - their raps scanned as well as rhymed and were locked into the beat, forming a coherent piece.
In the last 20 years the object seems to be to cram as many words as possible in without regard for the rhythm of the backing.
Try Cee-Lo Green ...
...Is The Soul Machine.
Lovely rhythms (amongst other things)
Worst of the lot
Antony and the Johnsons. Quite frankly unlistenable in every sense.
Insignificant
I agree that they are awful but surely nobody has yet suggested that they're significant in any way have they?
I never liked Antony and the Johnsons until
I heard the cover of "Knocking On Heaven's Door". Just blew me away. For some weird reason I can't put my finger on, it moves me in a way that no other version of this song has ever managed.
Robert Wyatt
I can't vouch for his Soft Machine stuff (which I'm not really familiar with), but his renditions of Shipbuilding and I'm A Believer are flipping awful. Sub-karaoke standard.
I have genuinely no idea why he's held in such high regard.
I don´t mind his music
But I think a lot of his high regard comes from the fact that he seems like a really nice guy.
Bands nobody's mentioned...
At this point in the discussion it's interesting to note the bands who nobody has suggested.
The Who are the biggest, most canonical(sorry) band who haven't been mentioned yet, so does that make them officially the best band in the world ever?
They seem to have won the Top Trumps thread as well...
This must mean something :-)
Great in the 60s
.....but, hey, we can get Townshend/The Who on 'Lifehouse' (oh, good, a box set!) and 'Tommy' and 'Quadrophenia' (truly dire) and 'White City' and 'Iron Man' and any LP released after 'Sell Out' can't we?
If we can't, we're not trying very hard are we?!
"Any LP released after Sell Out"
Who's Next - possibly their finest achievement and it was just the bastard child of Lifehouse,
Live At Leeds - possibly their second finest achievement.
I'll give you Tommy, It's Hard and Face Dances though :-)
Townshend solo seems to have had major Quality Control issues after his first couple of solo albums.
Sure, it wasn't all great
Yes, I'll give you 'Tommy', but any LP after 'Sell Out'? Including 'Who's Next'? Home of 'Baba O'Riley', et al. You cannot be serious.
i agree/disagree with lots above
...here's some new ones
The Band
Tom Waits pre 1983
James
Massive Attack
Portishead
Rocket From the Crypt
Super Furry Animals
M85
the most annoying overrated act (imho) is Manic Street Preachers and can i bellow a resounding WTF to The National Collective Panda Iver Mgmt buzz
Has anyone ever claimed that Rocket From The Crypt
were 'significant'??
Or indeed M85
about whom I have to say, "Their significance has passed me by, because I've never heard of them".
Springsteen
I agree wholeheartedly with the observations above about Queen: unlistenable and obnoxious. However I'm not sure that anyone would ever have described them as 'significant'.
Springsteen, on the other hand, 'significant' and grossly overrated.
Always struggled a bit with
Always struggled a bit with Dylan - oh and Nick Cave (apart from his last record which I really like)
The Clash
I like a few of their big hit singles and bits of Combat Rock (Rock the Casbah is my favorite Clash song) but I don't really buy into their lengendary status and I think London Calling and Sandinista are more bloated and overwraught than Tales From Topographic Oceans ever was.
Sandinista
is great if you skip side 1 and side 6 and make it a double album.
But if you skip Side One,
...you'll miss "Something About England", which is utterly fab and groovy, and quite marvellous in every way.
Couple of good songs but otherwise...?
The Stone Roses
Happy Mondays
The Verve
Sigur Ros
And furthermore...........;
I have previously said that Morrissey // The Smiths doesnt work for me. I would like to add more.
Coldplay - Dull, boring, pretentious.
Guns & Roses
Joni Mitchell
Yes
Robbie Williams - I thought Millenium was good, everything else he has done is just pants to me.
& finally....... I love Bob Dylan, but when I finally got to see him last year, I thought it was easily the most disappointing concert I have ever been to
I'll get my coat.
But, Joni n' Bob aside, has anyone suggested the artists
you listed were 'significant' in the development of popular music?