After many years as a radio producer, and then an IT trainer, I left work in 2008 when I had my younger daughter. I've really enjoyed having a couple of years off looking after my girls, and it's time to think about the future.

I want to go back to work, but I want to do something that still gives me school holidays with the kids, and has relatively family-friendly hours.

Primary school teaching (or piano teaching within a school) appears to be the obvious choice because:
1) Teaching is a genuinely brilliant job, looks really fulfilling and challenging and makes a real difference to children's lives. That's what I'd love to do.
2) I genuinely love teaching people stuff (in every job I've done, before I moved purely into training, I've always managed to take on some sort of training responsibility. Even now, I'm always the person to volunteer to teach my friends how to use their new phones etc.)
3) I enjoy spending time around kids. I have two little 'uns of my own and enjoying playing with them and their friends. I also used to teach toddler music groups and adored that.
4) I know I don't have a skin thick enough to effectively teach secondary school kids.
5) For the working hours / holidays as mentioned above

Next step is to volunteer as a classroom helper to get more of a feel for it... and then apply for a training course later in the year. But there are numerous ways to qualify and I'm not sure what the best route would be.

Any help, advice, anecdotes from anyone who's been there, done that, would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers
Hannah xxx

... but to be a secondary teacher.

She is having a, how shall I put it, disheartening time of it, but then again it is secondary teaching.

I'd say go for it, primary school age kids are not generally big enough to physically threaten a teacher, and as you are female you are unlikely to be accused by them of being a pedo... I'd also say, seeing as you have worked outside education, you have a lot to offer in terms of being inspiring. Plus you can bribe the little bastards with cake if all else fails surely?

is prepare to be very tired. This is not to discourage you, just pointing out this as a fact. I have taught at pretty much every level of education, in the UK and elsewhere. My experience is that primary is potentially the most fulfilling, but is probably the most physically demanding.

Look at all the energy your girls have and multiply by 20. That is what you take on.

Felt she would be happier teaching primary school kids. Joined Open U - emailed local schools - got "assistant" gig - HAS NEVER BEEN HAPPIER. Still attending lectures and doing Open U work but what a change in her life. Do it!

I've been a TEFL teacher for 18 years and I still love it. I've now moved into TEFL teacher training, and our trainees range in age from 20-65. One of the first sessions we do with people is eliciting all the traits of a great teacher - and what surprises and encourages so many trainees is the fact that most of the skills needed have already been developed through life experience: so you really don't need to worry on the 'Too late to start,' score There are Young Learner courses that you can do if you'd like to teach kids. Whatever you do, I'm sure you'll make a great job of it. Best of luck.

at an OK school, and while most of the pupils were fine, there were always one or two who made the job unpleasant. And not a great deal of options in disciplinary terms, short of cracking up and stabbing the little swine to death. So she did a primary teaching course, got a job in a small primary and absolutely loved it. That was partly down to an excellent headmaster and great colleagues, which won't always be the case, but she said the actual pupils were so much easier and more fun to teach than secondary pupils. She often had quite a lot of preparatory work or corrections to do in the evenings, but she loved teaching, loved kids, so she didn't mind that. She often used to get pupils visiting her after they'd left her school, just to have a cup of tea and a chat, which she was well chuffed about. So yeah, good luck with that.

and teach home economics?

...should you choose to accept it (before this blog post explodes in 30 seconds) is this: if you can play piano reasonably well, even up to middle grades level, then you should consider the 'soft entry' into primary age teaching of a sort by becoming a peripatetic piano tutor with your local Education Board Music Service.

I used to work in that area myself (running a Music service's exam function for several years, hence hiring pianists for exam accompanying work - another useful income, alongside pure teaching, of sometimes c£1000 per session for some, if they wished to take on that amount of work). For some reason there's ALWAYS kids who want/whose parents want them to learn piano. The ABRSM exam board, for example, now offer pre Grade 1 certificates. The people who teach kids this age and into grades 1-2 tend to be people whose 'bedside manner' with 7 year olds or whatever is in the area you describe as having yourself. It's a skill in itself.

I've no idea how it works in your Ed Board region Hannah but, in Belfast, if someone had came to me off the street and said they'd like to accompany exam candidates I was happy to arrange an audition (as much about 'right personality' as ability) with a senior tutor. After that, they were on course for a few hours accompanying exams at c£20 an hour (standard peripatetic teaching rate) and if that went well, they could have as much/little as they wished for at the next session.

Honestly, I had one self-employed tutor mention to me once that she had an unexpected tax problem and I was able to say, 'Right - when can you be available?' and was able to give her a colossal amount of work in the next exam session to pretty much sort out the problem in one go. In term,s of yearly allocation of tutoring hours within the Music Service (eg at various local schools during daytime hours), it'll come down to a similar individual relationship with a head of department/head of music service. And once you're in, you can pretty much work around your OWN schedule of availability.

I'm sure all Ed board's operate similarly in the 'who you know' stakes - cos it works for everyone: if you're really good at the job, very reliable and popular with the kids/parents, why on earth wouldn't any hours-giver employ you?! It ticks boxes on both sides.

If you have the financial flexibility to try it for a year (plus doing home teaching on piano as your own boss if you wish), it would certainly give you a very clear idea of how much you were able to tolerate being around a bunch of 7-11 year olds all day.

It would, I'm afraid, be hell on earth for me!

... who went back to train as a teacher in his late 40s ... student loan to get through teacher training college, year as a probationer (teaching English at a local scottish secondary school) and then off into the job market as a fully qualified teacher from summer '09 (also with doctorate in english on his CV)

since then he has had a small number of short term contract jobs that took him through academic years '09/'10 and '10/'11, but didn't cover the summer .. so he was officially unemployed and signing on the dole in summer '10 for a month or two ... his current contract runs out at the end of June and he'll be unemployed again after that ... what with the cutbacks in local authority spending, he is far from confident he'll be able to get a job locally (in edinburgh) come the new term ...

there are a sprinkling of teaching jobs elsewhere in scotland, but even if he was prepared to head off to the highlands or islands, uprooting his wife and kid, and pretty much leaving his ailing, elderly dad behind (out of immediate reach in case of emergencies), he has a couple of problems. One is that education authorities have to pay him more (because of his age, qualifications and experience) so he's a more expensive option than, say, a 25 year old probationer fresh out of teacher training college ... he also has to keep his job applications brief, pithy and attractive while reeling out an employment/education history that dates back more than 30 years, accounting for all gaps .. he gets the strong impression that job applications that say, "I am bright, breezy and 24, i went to school, had a year out teaching in africa, went to uni then did teacher training and i am prepared to live in a rented house in Orkney for the next few years and work for an entry level salary" are preferred ...

oddly my pal has a younger relative who trained as a primary school teacher a year or two before he did his own training - she had to leave scotland to find work (this last year she's been in the middle east and in '11/'12 she'll be at an international school in west africa) ...

now things might be completely different in your neck of the woods - in which case there are positive posting above - but it you were in edinburgh and asking me about primary or secondary school teaching, i would say, "Only if you're prepared to move anywhere else in the country, or abroad, to get a job."

Not trying to be evil here, just passing on the unfortunate experience of one of my best mates...

from another forum, whom I have met in meatspace who changed her career to primary teaching in her 30s, she'd be happy to chat to you. PM/DM me if you want to make a connection. She does the 4-7 years, another has always taught and she does the 8-11 crew. Both nice ladies with years of experience.

Yes, it is a genuinely fulfilling and brilliant job.
However, it will take over your life if you do it full time.
Training can be gruelling, and there are greater demands than ever on the profession.
The current government isn't doing us any favours, either.

Go into it with your eyes open. Be prepared to lose some family time at weekends, and in school holidays, and have a realistic expectation of the long hours involved.

And buy a voodoo doll that resembles an Ofsted inspector; you'll need one.

Best of luck. :-)

If you want to do the job right, it's a very intense experience, and one which - if you don't go into with your eyes open - will eat your life. As long as you don't let that happen, you'll love it.

I've been teaching for seven years, and five of those have been spent in London comps. From my third year of teaching onwards, I was in charge of coach-mentoring teacher trainees in English, which is how I ended up in my current post as a local authority adviser. (It was this or become an AST - an Advanced Skills Teacher - my head was supportive of my AST application but I wanted to leave that school, so I took this job instead, which is good, because I don't work as hard and they pay me more!)

I always loved the teaching, the classroom element: it's hugely challenging, and can tie your head in knots for hours at the beginning, trying to tie up these three, deceptively simple sounding concepts:

1) What do I want the kids to learn here?
2) What do I want them to do so that they learn it?
3) How am I going to know they've learned it?

Sounds simple, dunnit? But you'd be amazed how many teachers don't quite get that line to follow through their lessons reliably. It's HARD to do well. Probably quite easy to do badly, but very hard to do in a way in which everyone's completely well-served.

But my god. The feeling when you NAIL a lesson, when it does exactly what you designed it to do! When you can walk around your classroom and watch the learning carrying thirty kids away, and all you have to do is watch it happen, because they're so absorbed. So many of the best lessons hardly involve any actual "teaching" per se at all, because they're done well enough that the teacher hardly needs to lift a finger. For me personally, those are the times I look back on and think "what the FUCK? Why did I leave the classroom?"

Now, Hannah, I know you'll be AMAZING. But knowing you, I also know that you like to do things well. That will be painful for you in the first couple of years, because while we're learning, we're all a bit shit. That's kind of the point, right? You're going to need to set very well-defined parameters for when you just say "sod it" and stop working. Or you'll end up working all night, every night and burn out.

Don't. We can't afford to have people like you burn out: you're needed!

You'll be incredible, and I'm really excited for you starting out on this. And I'm always at the end of a Twitter feed or a phone call if you want to ask anything. I'm not Primary, but I got some game. :-)

Anyway, enough from me.

I really appreciate it; the positives, the negatives, thank you.

Ganglesprocket - Yeah, unfortunately, that's part of the reason I'm ruling myself out of secondary teaching. Have heard similar horror stories from other friends. Somewhat depressing that has to be a factor to take into consideration.

BigJimBob - I consider myself warned! That's an excellent point, my little girls can be pretty knackering...

Bodhisattva - That's really heartening to hear about your daughter, glad it's working out so well for her! I didn't realise it's possible to qualify through the OU, that might work nicely for me too. I shall investigate that further, thanks.

Vorgongod - Cheers dear, are you coming to the next mingle? Maybe we could have a little chat then?

Mac45 - Glad to hear it! Little kids are so much fun. I did a talk about Passover for my 5 year old's class last week, and it was a scream. They were asking me questions afterwards and it was hard not to crack up (my favourite was: "Do Jews use chopsticks?"), it's just so wonderful how their minds work.

LeedsBoy - coo, I didn't realise they still taught HomeEc at school?! I suspect it's all theory now and you don't get to do any fun cooking these days...

Colin & Helena - interesting, I had thought about piano teaching before (I have grade 8 piano so it seemed an obvious thing to do). I did contact my local Education Board Music Service last year, but they weren't taking on any new teachers. They said they'd be in touch when they were, but never called. Stupidly, I never followed it up, but I will try them again.

Glenbervie - erk, sorry to hear about your friend's experiences. I'm based in That London. Rather naively, I hadn't actually considered whether there would be vacancies or not.

James - I've PM'ed you, thanks.

Thanks again, everyone. xxx

PS Adman and Bob - I took so long to write the above post that you posted yours while I was writing mine! Proper thanks to follow once I've fully digested your posts. x

Adman - Duly noted. What sort of hours do you find yourself working? In your experience, are there many part-time teachers or does it tend to be full-time or nothing? (I was intending to go full-time but it's good to know...)

Bob - Crikey, you're perceptive. I do like to do anything that I do well, and sometimes take my mistakes far too much to heart. I will take your very good advice on board and allow myself to be a bit shit. Thanks for the rest of your post, it's really useful; particularly the 3 golden concepts for learning. And thank you for your faith in me, that means a lot. xxx

She does what you want to do, tailing off now because she's seventy. For the last thirty years, she's been at a local nursery school, playing a bit of piano, teaching kids to read, running her own class for a few years.

Born teachers are a type. You're one of those. I imagine you clipping Adman and Bob around the ear, telling Vorgongod to stop talking, asking Glenbervie if he's got enough sweets for ALL the class..

DM me if you want to have a chat to my mum. She'd be delighted to pass on many years worth of wisdom. You might have to tell her to shut up, though.

Working near to home really helps. I've done jobs where I've done 45 mins to an hour travelling each way and it can be a killer. Presently I live 15 mins drive from school, and it has improved my life no end!

I work 8am to 5pm most days, but you will find yourself leaving later after meetings, and earlier if you need to. Once the kids are in bed I find myself doing a couple more hours each evening, but I draw the line on Fridays! Weekends - you've got to get your planning done, so I reckon I work 4 - 6 hours over a typical weekend, and Sunday night is getting ready for Monday again.

Happily you will get an extended break every 5 - 7 weeks which takes the pressure off. (Let me say that I know that teaching is not the only long hours job, but unless you've done it, you can't appreciate how it really is. Running a primary class, with all it entails is a huge job.)

Part time: sometimes 0.6 or 0.4 jobshares come up, and they can be perfect for teachers with young families. A colleague of mine just dropped a day, and it has made a big difference to her stress levels. Another thing to look at is working as a 'regular' supply teacher at one or two schools, covering PPA time, etc. General supply - where you can be sent anywhere - is not for the fainthearted, but can be a great way of building experience- not a great idea for NQTs, though.

Bob is right about burnout. I've been through it, twice. I've been teaching for 15 years, and I'm still standing, however.

Anything else just ask. :-)

so that you could be my teacher. Although I've never met you, it is as obvious to me as it is that Silvio Berlusconi is a twisted buffoon that you will be brilliant at the job. If you inspire and entertain children just half as much as you do us on this here website then they'll be very lucky indeed.

Absolutely essential if you get the reception or year 1 class. Those little chairs are about ankle high, and it will KILL your back.

Mrs V is a primary school teacher, and though she finds it very tiring, and her back complains after every day with the little 'uns, she wouldn't do anything else; even through gritted teeth I can tell she loves the job. Go for it!

If many of the posters on my current Open University course forum are to be believed there are an awful lot of people of your age and experience aiming for a similar goal. I also get the impression that places on teacher training schemes are closely fought over with in-class experience apparently carrying a fair amount of weight. A friend of ours is currently mulling the same question having been offered a place in a school to gain experience but with significant financial detriment to her and her family.

However, cream generally rises to the top and if you don't take the opportunity you could be left with that "what if" regret. Good luck.

I'm a primary teaching assistant & I totally love my job. Last week the teacher I work with asked me if I'd like to help out by teaching the whole class of 8-9 year olds for the whole of Thursday afternoon. I wasn't put under any pressure to do it but I knew I'd be saving the school some money & I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it, so I agreed. I'm so glad I did because it went really well, better than I could have imagined, but my god was I knackered that evening!

Of course, I realise that using support staff to be (very) cheap teachers in this way is not an ideal situation but it was a win-win for all concerned &, to put it bluntly, the senior staff members would not have asked just anybody: they knew I was capable of it. When my own two little 'uns are older I may well take the plunge & get my PGCE, that's always been on the back burner in my mind.

In my school you have to be very flexible, ready to work in Reception class with the tinies one day, to Year 6 with the big attitudes the next. This has stretched my capabilities & I'm grateful for this experience, it's priceless. A good idea would be to get your foot in the door of a local primary & do some voluntary sessions there. Pretty quickly you'll see exactly what it takes to run a smooth class & you'll know whether this world suits you.

If you genuinely love children, can see the world through their eyes & can communicate the joy knowledge & learning, then you're half way there already. Good luck Hannah!

...to what other people have said, but my best friend re-trained as a primary school teacher in her early-mid 30's and has not had one second of regret (even when she has been knackered or had no evenings to herself for weeks). She has never been happier.

Married to a teacher, think the long hours are over stated (but you have to be organised). You will also be on holiday for 1/3 of the year; it is a vocation though and mid-career switchers can struggle.

has been teaching primary school for just over two years. She teaches in one of the most deprived areas of Birmingham to kids that ALL have some degree of an awful home life. There is violence, breakdowns, mental anguish, kids sometimes don't turn up for weeks at a time for one reason or another (all down to their parents).
But then she is the one person who will always be a positive influence on their lives. She says she either cries at the end of the day or has a massive smile on her face, never anything between the two. Fortunately the good times outweigh the bad, but if it was the other way around she would still carry on because she is making a difference.
She came from a rough background herself and she and her brother and sister all ended up doing work that helps others (sister works in an old people's home and her brother works with teenagers who have gone off the rails to say the least). I respect all of them so much and when an opportunity arises that will allow me to work for a charity full time or do something far, far more worthy than I do now I will grab it with both hands.

Hannah, I always thought teachers were a bunch of pampered, undereworked wets until I met the current Mrs Toro. She has shown me the error of my ways for sure!

having read your post to her, here are some of her observations, but bear in mind she is a Secondary Deputy Head so will see things a bit differently than you would as a primary newbie. Some of these points are covered to a degree in other comments

1. It is blood hard work. Prepare to be knackered, especially in the early part of your career as you build up a body of lesson material and experience. Burn-out is a real issue. Lesson planning is a real time stealer, with weekends and evenings regularly disappearing. She can now wing it if she needs to but has been teaching for 25 years.

2. As a secondary teacher, if you get a shitty class or individual kids you can walk away after an hour and maybe only see them a couple of times a week. As a primary teacher the little treasures are yours for keeps.

3. The peripatetic music service around here has taken a beating through the recent cost savings and so there may not be much of a service left. This will clearly vary from area to area.

4. A lack of teaching vacancies are a big issue at the moment generally. A local secondary is a big trainer of both secondary and primary teachers and she understands that something like 80% of this years primary qualifiers have still not found a job. Schools are cutting back on recruitment as a cost saving measure, stretching what they've got a little further.

5. This one is my observation. Child protection is a massive area of focus at the moment for all teachers. Mrs Toro is child protection officer for her school so sees more than most teachers but the staff as a whole can never switch off.

Hope this helps a bit. Sorry if it seems a bit negative but like the other guys above it's only fair that you get the warts and all list to be able to make a balanced decision. It's not all apples for teacher, but still hugely rewarding.

Besides the fact I went to primary school sometime in the last century, there's nothing I can add to what has already gone above.

However, I just want to wish you good luck and say that I know you'll do an absolutely fantastic job. Those little mites will be privileged to have you as their teacher.

I really appreciate all your comments. I'm just kind of taking it all in, really, there's an awful lot to think about.

Basically, all the positives you mention are SO positive, they completely confirm all the reasons why I want to do it.

But the negatives, like the lack of actual jobs available... that's a touch scary. I was also assuming that the working hours would be a little friendlier than they actually are!

I'm still going to volunteer as a classroom helper, and I will try the peripatetic music teaching route again, as that's definitely stuff I can starting doing while my little ones are still so little. And the OU route to qualifying could be a winner as I can do it in my own time.

But... I really have a lot of thinking to do. And I really appreciate you all for being both supportive and realistic.

...funnily enough Hannah I had an interesting, pertinent chat today with a woman who's currently doing maternity cover teaching of P5 in a Belfast school. I currently work in a Schools Library Service warehouse and she was in choosing some extra books for her school's library. She loved the school she was in (good staff relations and an okayish class) but feared September - no job, and very limited prospects apparently.

Having Grade 8 piano does give you an advantage in getting PS jobs (even as a non-music specialist). But I think the general jobs situation should be a very serious part of your consideration before embarking on a big commitment of learning yourself - do try and find out what it's like round your way: I daresay regions differ.

Likewise the music service provision round your way, as others have suggested. Ultimately it's extra-curricular and I guess as resources are ever more eaten away the non-core stuff will be first to go. (Indeed, the last involvement I had with the Belfast music service - which I left in December - was having my brains picked by a senior decision-maker wondering how he could cut £200,000 a year from its budget. Because the blank cheques juast aren't there any more.)

But Hannah - who NEEDS the public sector? Musical ability, empathy and passion for teaching/children are massively transferable skills: I know several people who are very happy and make enough to live on with good work/life balance who make most of their music tuition money under their own steam - teaching at home, their rates, their rules, their schedule - and only some of it under Education Board auspices.

There IS a niche with 'Hannah' written on it out there!

Hi Hannah! Not much to add to above, but thought I'd put in a tuppence ha'penny worth. I teach in a special needs primary school. I went for primary level because I like teaching all the subjects rather than one. After five years in mainstream I got sick of the rigid, prescribed structure of everything (which a lot of teachers find helpful and reassuring), and the dreaded SATs, and made the move to special needs.

In theory at least, special needs education is more practical, more flexible and more genuinely (*ahem*) "child-centred". Therefore it's more like what I think all education should be. I always say to jaded mainstream teachers who are thinking of leaving the profession that they should at least consider a shift to special needs. There are no special qualifications necessary - attitude is more important.
One major benefit of special needs/primary teaching, second to the HOLIDAYS, is the wacky things that children say. I'm proud to say that my pupils have made several contributions to The Word - the magazine and at least two podcasts...

If I can help with any further advice, I will.

Thank you all so much for all your advice, comments and support, I really appreciate it. I've been doing lots of thinking - particularly with what I've gleaned from this thread - and now have a clear path to follow.

As I have the piano and musical skills, it would be silly not to use them. I'm going to start giving private piano and / or ukulele lessons to young beginners for now, and over the next few years aim to take on more pupils as my kids get older, complete a teaching diploma, and eventually, hopefully, find a position in a school as a piano or music teacher.

Have just done an introduction to music teaching course, and on Friday I'm doing a child protection policies course. All very exciting.

So, piano teaching isn't quite what I was thinking when I started this thread, but actually it feels like absolutely the right thing to do at this stage in my life. Thanks for helping me make the choice. And keep your fingers crossed for me.

Thank you xxx

Im an infant school teacher and have been for the last 13 years. Im feeling old this week cos one of my former pupils has come back to the school on Year 10 work experience. This used to be funny when it happened to my older colleagues, Im not laughing now. Teaching can be the best job in the world. It is rewarding, you meet some great little people, young children are like small adults some are great some are arseholes (whether its their fault or not). There are perks ( 3 weeks until the long summer holidays yay), you get the buzz of the children suddenly clicking and getting something and every now and then a parent says something really nice to you. I usually work 7.30 - 4.30 every weekday, however many hours a week that adds up to? I generally dont work all holidays or at weekends but that because I never have lunch and I want to spend time with my kids. I could very easily work all those hours. If you hate incomplete lists or need to get all your jobs done there and then don't bother. Generaly speaking apart from a few bad weeks here and there (one of my colleagues thinks i get sad syndrome, I think being the only bloke on staff means Im entitled to be grumpy some days!)I wouldnt do anything else. The moneys better than some jobs but worse than others.
The down sides are being a political football, whichever government is in power. The last lot were just starting to let us get on just as they got kicked out. The reasons people think teachers moan when they get together is that all our stresses sound quite minor to them "How much trouble can a five year old be? Ahhh etc" - quite a lot when they are chucking chairs and calling the teacher a mother f***er as happened to a colleague. Its no more or less stressful than any other job judging by non teacher friends as long as your head teacher is good and your colleagues work as hard as you do (Im pretty lucky on both counts). OFSTED can be unreasonable or fair i have experienced both. The biggest pain is you will inevitably get put in charge of something that means you have less time to focus on your class.
Whatever you decide get as much school experience as possible first. And good luck.
PS its nothing like dealing with your own kids you get to give these away at night!

...as well as cash. You need a certain amounmt of the third, of course, but enough of the first two is the holy grail. I'm still looking (for all three)...

Good luck with it - I think it's the right path for you :-)