Entertainment For Lively Minds
Andrew Collins joins us in the pod, bringing his 1981 diary with him - and we take on *everything*!
Posted by The Word on 3 March 2009 - 1:59pm.
Andrew Collins brought his 1981 diary into the pod this week to recall the day when he got a ticket to see U2 for a couple of quid and also to show us his beautiful drawing of Kelly Groucutt of ELO, who died last week. Among the subjects debated with David Hepworth and Mark Ellen: whether we should really let the market decide the level of ticket prices, whether the BBC have let U2 go too far, whether album reviews should be replaced by the three month assessment, how we feel about Van Morrison doing "Astral Weeks" again and whether roof top concerts are just, well, stupid.
You can subscribe to the podcast for free here or stream it below.
have not heard it yet
but on the subject of U2 on the beeb (sorry if you mention this) but miranda Sawyer in the Observer on sunday pointed out that the former controller of radio 2 is now the head of universal music(U2 ultimate bosses) media section and so has skillful filled her former stations airwaves with U2 product. As Mirandas says who it's as if she never left!
Apologies
Not heard the broadcast but already have a need to rant with regard to "Brand U2" and their latest "Product". Quite frankly it is a ridiculous amount of promotional activity for the past couple of weeks to the point that I actually think it's obscene. How can it be justified spending so much money on force feeding the public a collection of pop songs (written by millionaires who seem to need a committee of technicians and respected music boffins in the studio before they can actually come up with a musical idea let alone commit any music to tape)?
The blanket coverage is so pervasive and invasive (that effing tab keeps popping up in Spotify; pressing the red button on BBC keeps telling me to watch their preening on a roof in London) that I'm actually not interested in hearing the album.
Help! I need legal advice on being digitally stalked by U2 and their virulent aggression in the ether forcing me to listen to their music otherwise they won't go away and leave me alone.
No wonder there's no line on the horizon: the view is completely blocked by U bloody 2.
Totally agree
And I think the blanket coverage on the "impartial" and "non-commercial" BBC has been a disgrace.
U2 on Letterman
Not listened to the podcast yet so apologies if this was covered but U2 are on Letterman every night this week promoting their new album.
Was the podcast recorded
Was the podcast recorded underwater this week?
Nope
That's a Divshare thing, I think - I've tried uploading replacements, but it keeps doing the underwater thing. The download version from iTunes should be fine.
And...
Fixed.
Three Month Review
'Over-estimation' in terms of reviewing new records is definitely prevalent. I would love to hear the truth from the editorial team about the politics of reviewing the big artists. The bland allegiance to Bruce in the current review dismays me. I love the three-month review idea and I am particularly keen to hear the Springsteen faithful acknowledge that this last release was shoddy, inadequate and indigestible.
I also love the 3 month
I also love the 3 month review idea. All this trying to get into the charts as soon as possible is surely a thing of the past I think. It was relevant in the 60s and 70s as a way to promote a single or an album (how else would the average guy know it was released?), but in the age of information overload you don't turn to the reviews section in The Word and go "Blimey, there's apparently a new Springsteen album!"...
And with all those quick 10 lines reviews all over the media (on my recent visit to London I learned that even Dr. Strangely Strange got a 5-star review! In the Sun!!) it would be nice to get a thought out, substantial and nicely worded opinion about an album. As Brian Eno probably said before, it's not about the mass of information, it's about quality nowadays.
Van
I did read in a recent interview with Van Morrison that he receives not one red cent in royalties from sales of the original version of Astral Weeks. Nor from any of the other albums that remain with Warner Bros - which I believe are His Band & Street Choir and Moondance. I can only presume that this is why he's, er, re-presenting the album in a 2009 format.
errr...
Why is Mark's mic stand sitting in a bowl of cornflakes?
From the sound of him, I'm
From the sound of him, I'm guessing that it was vicks inhaler, and as soon as the photo was taken, he put the towel back over his head.
Was it on?
I don't think Mark's mic was switched on. It sounds more like he's being picked up by the other mics in the room.
Yes
It was on. But I'm not sure the improvised sugarbowl baffle helped, creating the slightly disembodied sound on Mark's voice. We'll abandon the experiment for the next podcast.
Hmmm not sure
I do loads of recording and standing the mic in a bowl wouldn't have that effect I'm pretty sure. There must be something wrong with the mic then. Happy to offer some free consultancy.
I guess we'll find out next week.
I was certainly getting the same levels through his channel on the desk that I usually get. Thanks for the offer, though - it's much appreciated, and I'll be in touch if this issue persists.
Mark's mic
Mark's mic is actually balanced in a bowl of individual sugar sachets. It was a last-minute but no doubt important acoustic adjustment, which Fraser diplomatically let pass without comment.
Why
is it that iTunes hasn't got the podcast but everyone else has?
Its on mine....
Tried the refresh button?
iTunes
It is in iTunes, and should download if you're subscribed. Quite often, though, it doesn't show up in the iTunes directory listing for a while, which appears to be the case here.
But it is there.
That is it
It has appeared on iTunes now - lastnight I tried at 945pm to no avail so it must have happened in the intevenong 8 hours. Thanks. Now the drive to work will be much more enjoyable.
Relevant podcast links...
Van doing Astral Weeks Live
and
ELO
Of course
David may claim that Andrew Collins was invited on in order to end the speculation that podcast guests have to come from Northern Ireland, but given the East Midlands town Mr Collins hails from, it merely fuels my suspicions that to get on you just have to come from somewhere that begins with 'North'...
Astral Weeks
I just don't get it. I know it tops every muso's list of best albums ever but I don't understand why. Yes, it's good and stands the test of time in a way that, say, Mud or Bananarama don't. But, much though I've tried, I can't hear this elusive "best album ever" vibe.
I would not dream of paying £200 (or even £20) to go and see someone so famously contemptuous of his audience going through the motions of recapturing a moment of 40 years ago. As DH eloquently points out, he can never make it better than it was for those fans who love it and, for the rest of us, it all seems a bit pointless. I'd also guess that the album probably lasted about 40 minutes. Is he only doing that in the show? That makes the tickets look even more extortionate.
No, amazingly....
he finally - for the first time in decades - is doing some old for the first half, then Astral Weeks after a (booze-free) break.
Here's the setlist from when he did it at Madison Square Garden:
PART ONE:
Northern Muse
Spirit
Moondance
Wild Night
Jackie Wilson Said
Baby Please Don't Go
Can't Stop Lovin' You
And it Stoned Me
Comfortably Numb
Queen of the Slipstream
And the Healing has Begun
Domino
Brown Eyed Girl
Common One
---
PART TWO:
Astral Weeks
---
ENCORES:
Listen To The Lion
Gloria
Hmm. Apart from "Caravan", there's barely a Greatest Hit missing from that lot. Maybe 200 quid doesn't look quite so outrageously extortionate any more - just annoyingly steep.
but will he be mumbling
the times I've seen him his diction gets very "jazz". £200 to hear mumble his way through his hits.
I do think people have too much money no gig can match these sort of prices. I'll stick with the vinyl I got for £4.
You're right Archie
it looks like a great setlist. It's at least 25 years or so since he undertook that sort of a trawl through the back catalogue.
I saw him five nights on the trot back in 1985 and it was pretty much at least one or two tracks off every LP to date, including an acoustic 'Madame George' / 'Ballerina' segue that still rates as one of the best things I've ever witnessed on stage. Versions then that - sorry DH - far outstripped the original record.
People always focus on Van's apparent contempt for his audience. Sure it happens - I've been there. But isn't that the sort of lazy journalistic shorthand that we all criticized when the Leonard Cohen cliches are trotted out in the mainstream press?
Equally, I've seen Van raise his game spectacularly in response to audience response.
The point is that a live show at its best, and particularly by a performer like Van, is to an extent a collaboration between performer and audience. Whether it was back in 1985 or now in 2009 the audience brings something to the event - a previous totally subjective experience of those key songs, or a degree of expectation. Van is the perfect example. I've seen shows that have started badly, be totally transformed by audience reaction, or interaction. The reverse is also true. One or two of those 1985 shows lasted two hours, a couple ran over three.
Dylan - mentioned on the podcast - is different. He rarely seems to feed back off his audience. On stage he reinvents strictly on his own terms.
I think Van headed off down that route too a while back. Truth be told I stopped going to see him live about 6 or 7 years ago because I resented the fact that apart from a perfunctory trot through 'Brown Eyed Girl', everything pre-1998 was off the menu. I don't often find myself defending the old bugger these days.
Would DH take exception to him playing 'Madame George' & 'Ballerina' as part of a varied set-list? I suspect not. What if he added 'Sweet Thing' in too? No? And then finished the set with 'Cypress Avenue'? Again, I suspect not. So what's the problem? He's giving you some old after all!
I'm sorry I never got to see John Martyn perform on his 'Solid Air' shows a few years ago. I'm probably not the only one.
P.S. I also find it hard to believe that nobody in the pod has ever paid more than £150 for a ticket. Never been to a paying stadium gig in the US in the past 10 years? Liggers the lot of you.
P.P.S. I haven't got to the end of the podcast yet but disappointing that Patrick's 1000+ posts thread not worthy of a mention. I speak as an obsessive contributor, of course :-)
Van Morrison
Well, Steven, you're free to like what you like and I have to take your word for it that you've heard him improve on the original "Astral Weeks". I saw him at the Rainbow in 1973 and he was very good but I don't recall him topping the originals. Maybe I just miss these magical evenings. Like whenever I go to see Bob Dylan and he's terrible, people always tell me that I should have been there the night before. Or the night after.
I have to say if the version of "Sweet Thing" that's posted above is anything to go by I'm not missing much on the latest go-round. It sounds like the most phoned-in, voice-shot, garbled, will-this-do delivery imaginable. I had a drink recently with one of Van's legions of former managers. He told me that Van performs with one eye to the digital clock and measures his commitment to the last second.
I miss those (later) magical evenings too ...
and I really do not rate the 'AW - Live' CD. I was just a little surprised at the vehemence of your reaction. It seemed - almost - to verge on becoming an argument in favour of never going to see a live performance of good, previously recorded material.
You were probably very happy in 1973 (as I was in 1985) that he threw two or three tracks from 1968 into the set. And if we went to see him now and he did some old, maybe we'd both be happy if there was just a tiny sliver of that former magic.
I envy you being at the Rainbow in 1973, undoubtedly considerably more than younger friends of mine envy me sitting in the front row of the much less glamorous sounding New Vic in Belfast in 1985, but it's the same principle. Increasingly with the Morrison/Dylan/Young generation of performers it is simply about trying to catch just that tiny glimpse of the magic you've heard and read about, or if you're lucky perhaps actually witnessed years before.
P.S. The Rainbow version of 'Domino' trampled all over the studio version though, right?
For the last few years...
Van's actually had a large digital clock, onstage, in a position visible to the audience which counts down from 90:00 to 00:00.
As soon as it hits zero, he's gone. The Van forum I occasionally read tends to overflow with enthusiasm when he (rarely) stays on stage beyond the zero point
In some ways it's a good
thing I'd be happy with 90 good minutes of any gig they cna drag on if your not careful. No so keen on the clockwatching element and there take it or leave it will this do attitude it points to.
It's a living thing
My favourite ELO track for what it's worth.
Also, I noticed that AC managed to keep himself in check a lot more than he does with his chum Richard Herring. A bit less forthright shall we say, and I notice that he had his "telephone" voice on (as my mum would say)and sounded quite posh (except when trying that ridiculous West midlands accent!)
And has anyone bought Astral weeks live in LA, the new album by V the M. Surely the worst of all worlds!
Yup...
Stick with the original.
Different podcasts, different strokes
And I'm from the East Midlands, I am allowed to do a bad West Midlands accent, especially when it's done with the utmost respect and love for the region.
Live performance
As I have stated a few times in recent days there is no way I'm going to pay £200 for Van or anyone else.
However I have to disagree with DH about the best you can expect. The best live music transcends the recorded version and there is for a time, rarely the whole gig, what I can only describe as magic in the air. I very much doubt if those paying their two hundred quids are going to get that, but if I had paid out, that's what I'd be hoping for.
When more is more
The only way to get away with bringing out a record of a track-for-track live run-through of a previously released album is if you're going to do something like this with it (the impatient might want to wind on to about 3:30-ish):
But, to judge from that dismal "Sweet Thing", something like that is not what Van has in mind at all.
Astral Weeks Is Unimprovable
And therein lies the problem. Plus, when I interviewed the old boy last year, the only flash of textbook grumpiness came when I dared to suggest that Astral Weeks was, you know, a bit of a classic album. I really do wish he'd just leave it alone, and that Sweet Thing clip only serves to c my worst f . . .
Live Transcends Recorded?
Yes, have to agree with Carl Parker. When those special songs or moments hit you live and you get the tingles, there are fewer better sensations.
As for Van, I remember hearing "Summertime In England" live over twenty years ago and it was just one of those special moments. Having said that, £200 for Astral Weeks at the Albert Hall...makes Tom Waits in Edinburgh last summer sound like loose change.
And best ELO track? Evil Woman.
Right off now to find Andrew C's Goth show and listen to it in my Batcave...
Who is worth 200 quid?
Off the top of my head, I pay that (or the local equivalent) to see The Beatles, Velvet Underground and... nope, that's about it.
Assuming of course, that 200 pounds is all you pay. The calculation of pizza, G&T etc assumes that you didn't buy the ticket from ebay or similar, which probably adds another fifty, minimum.
Is there any one act (as opposed to a festival) that's really worth that sort of outlay? Led Zeppelin were 125, weren't they? I would have thought those seats might be in a bit more demand...
I'd pay £200 and more ....
....to see, in a 5-700 seater, decent venue -
Tom Waits on piano and acoustic guitar
Bruce Springsteen, acoustic guitar
Neil Young on piano and acoustic
I can dream can't I?
Neil Young £50
I only paid £50 to see Neil on acoustic and piano. Sadly he did Greendale and 3 or 4 hits. £45 wasted then.
Well Done
Really enjoyed the podcast, best one in ages. How nice to hear a journalist say they actually like a bit of U2. I'm a huge fan and even I wondered how they managed to get so much BBC coverage. Great Monkhouse gag by the way.
Andrew Collins
was really on the money this week. His best performance to date I think. Wish I'd known about the Goth programme - will try to get it from iPlayer. BTW Andrew, my sister in law was in a Midlands goth band in the 80s who had moderate success - some tracks on compilations, played the Marquee etc. A fine era.
Bob Monkhouse
A cracking Bob Monkhouse interview on Radio One in 1994
Re: 3-month review delays
It's a good idea in principle, but it'll never work. The reason people read reviews is to find out whether the record is worth buying. It's much less fun reading a review after you've already bought the record. The 3-month late review would probably be a better read and be closer to "the truth" (though it's all subjective, yadda yadda yadda), but it'd be missing the point.
What would be interesting is if you had a page in the mag looking back at 6-month old reviews with the reviewer writing a short piece to say if they still agree with what they said.
ELO
Good to hear this band getting some positive coverage. The comment that David makes - that when ELO pop up on the Spotify playlist everyone smiles - is about the size of it. They were a band that were meant to be enjoyed. As I type this, I have Out of the Blue on very very loud indeed, first time in many years that I've played it, and really listening to it. The keyboard bass on Turn to Stone is remarkable, as is the vocal breakdown section. That's just the first track!
Not too noisy...
I have never forgotten something written about ELO in my junior class, circa 1980/81, which would make us about 8 or 9. We all had to write about our favourite 'pop' band. I wrote about Blondie, I think, but my friend Kerry wrote about ELO. She got to read hers out, and I have never forgotten the first two lines:
Ahem (clears throat): "My favourite band is ELO, which is short for Electric Light Orchestra. I like them because they are not too noisy and not too quiet."
Can't argue with that, can you?
£200 for a gig?
I'd probably only pay that for The Beatles. But I'd expect all four of 'em to be there...
Beyonce £1,265 in Manchester
According to Tuesdays MEN...
Needless to say, I am plumping for the "I'm Not Stupid" package at £0.00. For that I get to stay at home and watch TV from my own sofa, drink my own tea and not give two hoots for what Beyonce (sorry Beyoncé) is doing with all her hard-earned dosh.
Meeting your idols
Some say you shouldn't meet your idols. The jury is out on that one for me. I've met one or two and it's always been interesting at least. There is surely something a bit strange about paying to meet them. It seems a bit like prostitution can it really be real if one half of the party is in it for the cash?
No - if it's not in a real context leave it to your imagination that way you definately won't be disappointed.
Review copies
Talking of review copies of albums, I received a De La Soul LP a couple of years ago which had the noise of cows mooing dubbed over the music every couple of minutes. Actually added quite nicely to my enjoyment of the music.
Fill Yer Boots
On the Podcast Mr Hepworth stated, he 'twittered' that U2's new single 'Get On Your Boots' was like 'Subteranean Home Sick Blues'. Can I just say that it's more like 'We Didn't Start The Fire' by Billy Joel...
It's actually Chuck Berry's "Too Much Monkey Business"
That's where Bob Dylan got "Subterranean Homesick Blues" from.
Given its rich antecedents
you have to wonder why its such a dull song.
Please note: Not a U2 hater by any stretch; but that single is really beige.
Costello
Touch of "Pump It Up" in there too, and, as a fan, it's their poorest single in a long time. Album is pretty handy though.
And Pump It Up...
... was derivative of Sub. Home. Blues which was derivative of Too Much Monkey Business. Now where did that come from?
Van
I just watched that Van performance at the Hollywood Bowl a second time (this time with added beer) and I still can't believe how bad it is. As David said it's a phoned in performance.
If I saw someone do that song just like that at the end of the stairs at Holborn Tube Station I wouldn't be in a hurry to throw any money in the hat.
Pure shyte.
Black market tickets - new approach for groups?
I have often thought that the band should with-hold say 200 tickets for a show that they know is going to sell out, and resell them on eBay in the fortnight prior to the show. The mark-up would probably pay for all their crew costs for each gig.
Indeed, a session musician playing for Take That (or someone of that ilk) at the O2 would probably make more than his live fee if he was given 10 free tickets to re-sell.