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Amazing facts from history

David Hepworth's picture

Listening to David Starkey's lecture about Henry VIII (available as a podcast here) I learned that in 1520 more people in the world spoke Dutch than spoke English.

Over to you.

0

Any stats

on the uptake of Double Dutch?

0
Nick_Setchfield | 28 October 2009 - 8:09pm

Interesting thing about the Dutch...

... is that around this time they really were the most hated nation on Earth (cleverer people than me will know why), so "Dutch" was a very negative adjective to use, and led to various sayings like...

Double Dutch (difficult to understand)
Dutch Courage (artificial courage caused by alcohol)
Dutch Treat (a treat you have to pay for yourself)
Dutch Uncle (frank to the point of rudeness)
Going Dutch (paying for yourself)
In Dutch (in trouble)
Dutch Auction (a descending-price auction)

0
Metal Mickey | 29 October 2009 - 10:30am

think

this is more to do with Anglo-Dutch rivalry for mercantile supremacy in the 18th century - rather than any universal loathing of the Dutch.
Not sure such anti-Dutch sentiment is present in other languages

0
Sheev | 29 October 2009 - 10:37am

Dutch auction

Is that negative? I'm sure wholesale tulip auctions in the Netherlands really do operate like this, with the price starting unrealistically high then descending, and the lot going to the first bidder. I saw it on Blue Peter once, so it must be true!

0
Gatz | 29 October 2009 - 10:48am

Also

Dutch Ovens...

0
DrJ | 29 October 2009 - 11:07am

Hey...

Ebo-ebo-ebonettes.....

Sorry............!

2
Six Dog | 29 October 2009 - 11:46am

well I LOLd

.

0
James Blast | 29 October 2009 - 3:51pm

The Darien Scheme

The ill-fated attempt for Scotland to establish a trading colony on the Isthmus of Panama was opposed implacably by the English, for a number of reasons (local hegemony, not wanting to offend Spain etc). English bankers, and those they could influence, refused to offer finance. The money had to be raised by private subscription, in Scotland, and it was - £400,000 in just a few months. This - and here's the amazing part - was about half the total money currently in circulation in Scotland at the time, or about one fifth of the total wealth of Scotland.

It was all lost, of course, and Scotland was effectively bankrupt. It's one of the reasons why the Act of Union happened soonafter. But as a whip-round, it takes some beating.

1
Pilleus Jr | 28 October 2009 - 8:17pm

Here I am, going intae shot,

and here I am, going outae shot, an' somewhere over ma shou'der there's a wee bit o'coastline.

:)

2
Vulpes Vulpes | 28 October 2009 - 9:15pm

for southern highwaymen

In the New Forest, there was a huge oak tree on which they hang convicted highwaymen and thieves. Not a big deal.

EXCEPT, the nickname of the tree was the Naked Man.

Amazing.

It's still there today, although only a stump as it was damaged during a thunder storm during the second world war.

0
badger_king | 28 October 2009 - 8:24pm

I rather fear that in the world of 2009

more Dutch people speak good English than do English people.

1
Vulpes Vulpes | 28 October 2009 - 9:13pm

Mrs Wayfarer,

who is Dutch and speaks much better English than me and without an accent. We don't play scrabble in our house because I got tired of losing - to a bloody foreigner!

0
wayfarer | 28 October 2009 - 11:59pm

I always try to make an effort when visiting another country.

Except in the Netherlands, where you don't get the chance to try, as their English is so fantastic. Mind you, you have to listen carefully to many of the taxi drivers at Schiphol, half of whom seem to be expat Russians with sketchy local geography and hasty right feet.

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 29 October 2009 - 9:46am

I'm afraid that you give the Brits a bad name

I'm English and living in the Netherlands. In my experience, Dutch people think it's terrible that the British (and Germans) make no attempt at all to communicate in Dutch while they're here. The excuse that you are not given the chance doesn't really wash. For a Dutch person, it is completely normal to attempt the language a little when visiting a foreign country (wherever it is) and everyone here knows a few words of all sorts of languages.

The ex-pat British and American community here is even worse. I've met people who can't speak any Dutch despite living here for 10 years or more. It was very very hard work but being fluent in the language was one of my priorities when I came here. I was fluent (well, an exam said so) after three years.

I also don't think that the Dutch speak better English than inhabitants of many other small European countries, Sweden, Norway and Denmark in particular.

1
UtrechtSimon | 29 October 2009 - 12:30pm

Well...

I mostly agree Simon, and as someone who's only spent a week in Amsterdam I have very little experience to go on. That said, when I was there, I learned a few words and phrases, and combining it with my German (which was fluent at the time), made an effort to converse with people in Dutch. Without exception, they answered in English, without waiting to find out if I could continue a basic conversation in rudimentary Dutch - which I couldn't have done, of course, although they weren't to know that.

0
Theo Zoffrok | 29 October 2009 - 12:54pm

Admittedly there is a difference between Amsterdam...

...and the rest of Holland on this subject although there are still people in Amsterdam who would be impressed by a Brit attempting a bit of Dutch.

0
UtrechtSimon | 29 October 2009 - 12:57pm

Bloody hell, mate,

it was exaggeration for effect. I always attempted 'Hello, good morning, how are you' or some such frippery, even when Eric met me at the airport in the Merc taxi. Don't work for Elsevier do you?

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 29 October 2009 - 8:36pm

take a year

A friend of mine who lived in the Netherlands says it took about a year for her friends to stop replying to her in English when she spoke to them in Dutch. Eventually they started to talk to her in Dutch.
As other people have pointed out - Amsterdam is not the Netherlands, in the same way as London is not the UK. There is a very different culture out in the country. Still all bleeding tall though.

0
paulwright | 30 October 2009 - 12:46pm

Robert Oppenheimer

According to the biography, American Prometheus, Oppie got a job teaching at the University of Leiden in 1928. He spoke no Dutch when he arrived, but gave his first lecture in Dutch 6 weeks after arriving.
But he was rather a clever chap, perhaps even a genius.

0
Carl Parker | 2 November 2009 - 2:03pm

He's

da bomb, innit :-)

0
Black Type | 2 November 2009 - 3:10pm

The same goes for Swedish

I learnt it at university and found the locals more than amenable to conversing in their own language with someone who was clearly not native.

By the end of my month there I could happily chat away and no-one believed I was English, thank goodness.

0
robram | 2 November 2009 - 7:21pm

Made all the more interesting

by the fact that English has an awful lot in common with Dutch, Swedish and Danish. Especially if you're northern. I love all that stuff, me

0
illuminatus | 2 November 2009 - 9:34pm

Norwegian civil disobedience

Apparently during the Nazi occupation in WWII, many Norwegians adopted a subtle but annoying form of action against their oppressors: despite the fact that almost all Norwegians knew German as a second language at the time, whenever a German attempted to speak to them they would feign complete ignorance of the language.

Continuing this very polite resistance, they also refused to sit next to Germans on the buses, and would rather stand even if there were no other seats available. Eventually the Nazis had to implement a law in Norway forbidding people from standing on the bus if there were spare seats.

0
Douglas | 2 November 2009 - 10:26pm

Holloway Road

I've got to say that open minded that I am I find it sad that when walking down the Holloway Road recently it is now hard to hear
English being spoken. I boarded the 29 bus last tuesday to go from Holloway to Camden town to see Robbie Williams at the BBC Electric Proms I have to say that there was more English spoken on the Greek Island of Skiathos on the bus than on the 29 bus in London. I personally can't help saying it's sad. I welcome folk from everywhere but I find it sad that the lead language is no longer English.
Please don't shoot me down with PC stuff. I'm suprised that we've got to Bladerunner territory so soon.

2
Lunaman | 28 October 2009 - 9:54pm

I wouldn't panic.

English will remain one of the dominant languages in the world for some time to come.

If you walk down the street in my town you hear English spoken badly by the locals and beautifully by the largest minority group: the Poles.

I think the situation you describe can only occur in large multicultural cities like London. That's what I like about it, personally. And I'm willing to bet it varies from area to area too, since 'London' is more a concept than one place. There have always been areas of large cities where the dominant tongue is subsumed by the languages of immigrants. That's partly why cities are good. And just think of all the new words English is absorbing all the time from these other tongues - excellent!

0
Adman | 28 October 2009 - 10:06pm

I recall a recent stat

that apparently within the next decade more of the global population will speak English as a second language than those for whom it's their first.

0
Phil Pirrip | 29 October 2009 - 9:55am

The spread of "English"

is - of course - the spread of "American". We had a company conference recently and we had people of East Asian, South Asian and European background - as well as standard issue Brits and Yanks - and the talk was peppered with "ballpark" and "get outta here" and "I'm good" and "I'm like" for " I said".

Mind you - my kids talk like that and they are 7 and 4.

0
Sheev | 29 October 2009 - 6:45pm

Ooh, shall we

start a thread on this? Haven't had one for a couple of weeks or so :-)

0
Black Type | 29 October 2009 - 9:21pm

Good point Mikhail

- we haven't had a why-oh-why can't people enunciate and punctuate properly thread in at least a week or two.

Although - I wasn't being perjorative in my previous comment. It's just a fact that the rise of English as the de facto world language may have originated with British colonial influence - but in more recent times Coca-Cola, Nike,Spielberg movies, Michael Jackson, American style Business Schools and Microsoft spell-check - colour? - has more to do with it.

All our Chinese and Indian graduate intake sound like they've stepped out of a Pixar remake of Wall Street

0
Sheev | 29 October 2009 - 10:10pm

A friend who lives in Ecuador

told me that wealthy Ecuadorians who want their kids to speak English will only employ tutors with an American accent.

0
Neil Dyson | 31 October 2009 - 7:41am

Holloway

As a resident of Holloway Road, I've gotta say that I absolutely love the cultural mix. It's one of the greatest things about London, something I'm reminded of any time I get on the Underground at Heathrow: nowhere else on the planet has the mixture, the diversity, that we do. Not New York, not Paris, nowhere. And I'm not being PC - it's exciting, it adds enormously to my own enjoyment of the city, and it's probably the main reason I stay. Gimme the El Rincon Quiteno Ecuadorian cafe on Holloway Rd over a greasy spoon any day of the week.

3
Fraser Lewry | 28 October 2009 - 10:15pm

self selecting data

people on buses tend to be poorer and in london they are likely to more recent arrivals. If you went up the hill to highgate the story would be different.

0
Chris G | 28 October 2009 - 10:38pm

It was self selected and specific!

I get your point about self selecting data and demographics but I think you may have missed mine. I am very familiar with the 29 bus and Holloway road and the area where I live. I didn't mean to talk about Highgate. I was talking about Holloway and the 29 bus. Please check out my reply to Fraser.

0
Lunaman | 30 October 2009 - 10:19am

Aahh.. Holloway Road..

My mate Andy, now gone posh in Crouch End, lived off Holloway Road for years. Fond memories of The Swimmer, Nambucca, The Nid Ting and that nice tapas place.

0
Lenny Law | 28 October 2009 - 10:55pm

Crouchenders! (cruushonders!)

Hi Lenny,
You've gone to the darkside have you? Banners for brunch - get the front window! No, I jest. I like Crouch end too, good restaurants & vibe (I don't find the pubs to be that good though).
Yes the Swimmer is a fine pub and a good jukebox too. I didn't use Nambucca too often. I nearly ended up in The Nid Ting last night (I wish I had. I ended up in an Italian next to Ladycabs in the middle of Archway rounbabout - not very good I have to say). I've always fancied trying the Tapas place(opposite M & S ?)but not got round to it.

0
Lunaman | 30 October 2009 - 10:28am

Gotta say...

... That Liverpool is a lot like this as well. Walk down Church Street or any equally teeming thoroughfare, and there's a lot of foreign languages occurring. Which I think is great. I mean, London, you kind of expect, but Liverpool?! Maybe 150 years ago.

And I don't know why this is. Perhaps the Capital of Culture, but I think it's more likely to be a huge influx of foreign students. Macca's fame school, probably.

0
Klaus Joynson | 29 October 2009 - 4:30am

I used to live on Holloway

I used to live on Holloway Road too and thought it was fun. I remember Corrigan's, the Irish butcher, giving out about all the new Holloway immigrants. He seemed to have forgotten that... he was an immigrant.

Overall, I'm just glad you got off the 29 bus alive.

0
DrJ | 29 October 2009 - 9:05am

Corrigans

It's still a very good butchers. I had a lovely rib of beef off him a few weeks back.
The 29 is like taking your life in your hands at times. I often wake up in the morning after a night out and think 'blimey I should have got a cab'!

0
Lunaman | 30 October 2009 - 10:36am

I once lived off Holloway Road

"Cultural mix" is right. It was while living there that I had my Bob Dylan tandoori moment.

0
Archie Valparaiso | 29 October 2009 - 10:32am

Tell us more, Arch

- your eyes met the "Desolation Row" hitmaker's over a crowded popadum?

0
Sheev | 29 October 2009 - 6:38pm

Naan the wiser?

The story is here, although it'll probably make more sense if you read this first.

0
Archie Valparaiso | 29 October 2009 - 8:58pm

I love the cultural mix too

I lived in Harley St (W1) as a kid. Went to Primary schools on Lisson Grove and then in Archway. I went to Grammar school on the Marylebone Rd. I spent five years going back and forth on the 27 bus from Highgate to the Marylebone road passed Baker St (Madame Tussauds), Regents Park tube stn, Tottenham Court Road onto Camden, Kentish Town and finally Archway. The cultural mix couldn't have been better. I then went to Hackney college. I have lived in Finsbury Park for about thirty years and have had restaurants and cafes from every corner of the road on my back door. The point I was making was that I find it sad that on Holloway Road and more specifically the part of Seven Sisters Road between Holloway Road and Hornsey road English is not the language you hear around you as you walk about. It has always been culturaly very mixed and it has always had a transient population in Finsbury Park but the ambient sound has been English although the population may not have been. It was the common ground if you like - it seems not to be the case presently. I'm glad you like it in the area too. I don't know if you have children but I have children and now grandchildren growing up in the area and maybe that's part of why I would like English to be the background noise when out and about possibly it's nostalgia.

0
Lunaman | 30 October 2009 - 10:11am

Sticking with the Tudors...

The dining table in a house was known as 'the board' - it was literally a big board, not attached to the legs - that's where the tradition of it being impolite to put your elbows on the table comes from - if you did it in Tudor times you ended up with dinner in your lap.
Also on the other side of 'the board' were marked playing surfaces for different games - you turned it over after dinner and played. Hence: board games.
It is also the origin of 'board room' & 'chairman of the board'.
Not amazing, perhaps. But quite interesting...

I saw Starkey give a lecture on Henry VIII at the Sheldonian in Oxford earlier this year - it was absolutely fascinating - a really captivating speaker.

0
Adman | 28 October 2009 - 10:22pm

Still not sure who got the best deal

The Netherlands: The South Pacific island Rum

Britain: The North Atlantic island Manhattan

0
Norwegian Blue | 28 October 2009 - 10:33pm

Dressed in Black

Prince Albert died in 1861 and Queen Victoria was heartbroken. Immediately after his death, she vowed to remain dressed in black until the end of her days - and she did so for the next 40-odd years. Everyone in her presence was expected to also wear black as a mark of respect.

As this period of mourning lasted for such a long time, it became the norm for formal gatherings (not just funerals) to feature the wearing of black. Prior to 1861, dandy English gentlemen would try to out-do each other with increasingly outlandish and garish colours.

0
Austin | 28 October 2009 - 10:44pm

Interesting fact re Apollo 11

(and this is on the official NASA podcast about the first moon landing):

they quite seriously considered not taking a camera.

The numbers were so close to the wire that all excess baggage had to be left out.

And the only reason they relented was that they reckoned the US public might want to see some return on their tax dollars. Nothing to do with being the single most momentous event in human history.

I don't know about you, but I get annoyed if I go to the beach and discover I've left the camera behind ...

0
Douglas | 28 October 2009 - 10:45pm

Odd...

That seems rather puzzling.

Apollos 7, 8, 9 and 10 had all carried cameras. The pictures of Earth taken from Apollos 8 and 10 had had an enormous impact, and a couple had become bestselling posters. It seems odd that NASA would even consider not taking a camera for the moon landing itself.

0
Inky Fingers | 29 October 2009 - 9:28pm

The weight

I am sure everything was considered because of the weight implications - every gram requires many more grams of fuel to launch into orbit, which is turn needs more fuel etc. These were missions with terrifyingly small margin of error. The astronauts were so brave you actually have to wonder whether they were entirely sane. -Realistically they needed cameras to prove to the Russians they had been there. (incidentally it is the Russians who defeat the conspiracy theorists who say it was all faked in a tv studio - don't you think they would have said something? Or were they in on it too?)

0
paulwright | 30 October 2009 - 12:07pm

"Brave" Vs. "Sane"

Apparently the Apollo programme worked to a 0.001% safety margin, which sounds fine until you know that a Saturn V rocket has 18 million parts...

Or, put another way, that the astronauts were blasted into space sitting at the end of a huge bomb, knowing full well that NASA expected 180 parts to go wrong... zeesh. And all for standard Air Force wages too.

0
Metal Mickey | 30 October 2009 - 2:40pm

Travel Expense Form on Buzz Aldrin's wall

Houston, TX - Cape Canaveral, FL - Moon - Pacific ocean

0
Norwegian Blue | 30 October 2009 - 3:48pm

The huge bomb thing is spot-on.

I recently read a fascinating book called How Apollo Flew To The Moon which is just awesome. Loads of staggering facts. What scared me is the point Mickey makes; the five F-1 engines on the main stage of the Saturn V burned three tons of fuel PER SECOND! EACH!!! That's basically a big block of flats balanced on top of fifteen tons of rocket fuel going bang, per second. And you're tied to the top of it.

Sod that.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apollo-Springer-Praxis-Books-Exploration/dp/0387...

0
Lenny Law | 30 October 2009 - 9:24pm

I double checked

It was on the NASA official Space Discovery podcast, but unfortunately (conspiracy theorists take note!) the episode is no longer there. It was the Flight Director being interviewed, and he clearly says that management were sceptical about taking a camera on the first mission.

0
Douglas | 30 October 2009 - 8:33pm

I wasn't...

I wasn't doubting you. I'd be interested to hear that podcast. It's often astonishing how late decisions were made in the Apollo program.

Apollo 8 was the first flight to leave the relative safety of Earth orbit at an altitude of a few hundred miles and fly the quarter of a million miles to the moon, the first flight to use a Saturn V, the first flight to reach the escape velocity of 24,000 miles an hour. The decision that it would fly to the moon was made on August 9, 1968. It launched on December 21.

For anyone interested in the mindset of an astronaut, I'd recommend the book "Carrying the Fire" by Michael Collins. He was the command module pilot of Apollo 11, the man who orbited the moon alone while Armstrong and Aldrin were making the first landing.

As I understand it, the astronauts were not afraid of dying -- they were afraid of screwing up.

0
Inky Fingers | 31 October 2009 - 8:51am

I'd be surprised in Apollo 11 case

see here for a nice account of the cameras, plural, carried on the misson
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/missions/apollo/apollo_11/photography/

however there *is* the wonderful story of John Glenn's camera, e.g.
http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Glenn.html:

There is the famous story about Glenn and his camera -- that he wanted to take a camera on the flight, so he went into a store and bought one. NASA engineers then modified the camera so that it could more easily be used on the flight, but everyone agrees that Glenn bought the camera and that's how it was selected for the flight. Things must have been very different back in 1962, in terms of how NASA and the astronauts went about procuring and testing the items that were used on the missions.

0
SpaceBoy | 2 November 2009 - 6:44pm

HMS Dreadnought was the first modern battleship.

Laid down in February 1905, she went to sea a year and a day later, rendering obsolete all other capital ships then afloat and sparking an arms-race which threatened to bankrupt nations. Britannia ruled the waves.

As a percentage of GDP, the new Queen Elizabeth SuperCarriers, due for launch at some time in the future, are of similar cost. They will be ignored by everyone. Britannia might rule the Solent. If none of the Yanks are around.

0
Lenny Law | 28 October 2009 - 11:29pm

Just watched...

...the first programme in Andrew Marr's new series, and gobsmacked at some of the facts about Britain in the 1900s that I had never realised.

For example, the British invented concentration camps (resulting in the deaths of thousands of Boer women and children) as well as coming up with eugenics.

Also, that Edward VII's diet was truly monumental. Example of a day's nosh in the royal household: breakfast (the works, plus kedgeree), lunch (something like 5 courses, including lobster salad), tea (sarnies, cakes), dinner (12 courses, guests or not) and supper (cheese, biscuits). Blimey.

0
Specs_Beard | 28 October 2009 - 11:51pm

Charming british inventions

Churchill and Bomber Harris had a bit of history in the middle east pre-WW2, among other things inventing (or very early adopters) of aerial bombardment of random foreigners (enemies and soon-to-be-enemy civilians). They weren't above a bit of chemical warfare either. But standards of behaviour were different then.....

0
Harold Holt | 31 October 2009 - 8:02am

The Raj

According to the National Archive, during the "Raj" (the period which followed the Indian Mutiny/Rebellion in 1857/8) there were only 20,000 British citizens in India, which had a total population of 300 million.

0
Melville | 28 October 2009 - 11:53pm

India

was one of the richest countries on earth before British rule. After British rule, it was one of the poorest and Britain one of the richest.

Amazing

0
Sheev | 29 October 2009 - 10:33am

Who knew Alan Klein

did Queen Victoria's accounts?

0
Adman | 29 October 2009 - 10:52am

An Utterly Impartial History Of Britain

The John O'Farrell book "Utterly Impartial History Of Britain" is full of facts like these, and rather funny too.

Having said that. sat here in the office preparing for my morning meeting, I can't for the life of me remember any of them to share......

0
chrisf | 29 October 2009 - 1:28am

Penny Lane

In July 2006, a Liverpool Councillor proposed renaming certain streets because their names were linked to the slave trade. It was soon discovered that Penny Lane, named after James Penny, a wealthy 18th-century slave ship owner and strong opponent of abolitionism, was one of these streets. Ultimately, city officials decided to forego the name change and re-evaluate the entire renaming process.

0
Beany | 29 October 2009 - 1:39am

Vey strange!

Boom-tssch!

0
Black Type | 29 October 2009 - 9:24pm

Now this is my kind of thread.

Here's a handful. Sorry if you've heard them before.

1. When Joseph Smith, the founder and prophet of the Mormon church was killed, his successor, Brigham Young, married all of his wives.

2. There were more bars in New York during prohibition than before.

3. The following events all happened on January 30th: 1649 - Execution of Charles I, 1933 - Election of Adolf Hitler, 1948 - Assassination of Gandhi, 1969 - Beatles play rooftop concert, 1972- Bloody Sunday.

1
matthew | 29 October 2009 - 1:44am

In the ancient world

they did not believe that the earth was flat. The ancient Greeks and Chinese, as well as European scholars of the middle ages knew perfectly well that the earth is spherical. This is a modern myth which gained credence as a reaction to the the theory propagated by the Samuel Rowbotham, an early progenator of the Flat Earth Theory/Society.

The Celts made roads, before the Roman occupation. They were large wooden tracks for local use.

0
RobertC | 29 October 2009 - 9:49am

Not only that

but Eratosthenes of Cyrene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes) calculated the circumference of the earth to within about 200 miles of the currently accepted figure. In 240BC. Amongst other things.

The Greeks knew full well the earth was a spheroid (it's actually slightly flattened at the poles because of rotation), mainly because of the shadows cast by the earth on the moon during eclipses.

0
illuminatus | 2 November 2009 - 9:45pm

Montrose / The Battle of Inverlochy

When studying for my dissertation, this one fascinated me. In 1645, the Marquis of Montrose, leading a small army of highlanders and royalists marched for 36 hours over virtually impenetrable highland, kept his troops awake all night ready for war, and laid siege to the castle at Inverlochy in the morning, despite being outnumbered 2 to 1. Needless to say, Montrose and the Royalists lost only miminal casualties, whilst the parliamentarians, led by the Marquis of Argyll, lost nearly half their troops. Fascinating stuff.

0
badger_king | 29 October 2009 - 10:20am

Some years back some friends of mine and I clubbed together...

to buy a 200 year old medical textbook for a doctor pal's birthday. Contained within was the warning that those who indulged in masturbation had been possessed by the devil.

0
Patrick Crowther | 29 October 2009 - 10:33am

Explains

Ozzy Osbourne then.

1
Beany | 29 October 2009 - 10:38am

Pretoria Pit Disaster

Next year sees the centenary of this dreadful mining disaster, where 344 men and boys were killed. This was the worst accident in the Lancashire coal field, and the third worst in Britain. The site is just a couple of miles from where I live. It makes my aching back and mouse finger after hours of computer "play" seem pretty pathetic really. We are very lucky these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretoria_Pit_Disaster

0
Beany | 29 October 2009 - 10:50am

Overcrowded London

Did you know there are less people living in London now than before WW2? The end of widespread domestic service meant the population shrank and it's never quite reached 1930's levels (something like 11 million) since.

0
Kit Hogue | 29 October 2009 - 11:57am

Now

that is amazing.

0
Sheev | 29 October 2009 - 6:34pm

Most populous Muslim country in the world is...

Not Pakistan, not India, Egypt, Algeria, Syria. It's Indonesia. I don't know why, that always seems surprising to me.

0
Theo Zoffrok | 29 October 2009 - 1:05pm

Weizmann the Conkerer

Horse chestnut trees are a source of acetone which is used to make cordite. During World War I, there was a huge demand for cordite for making munitions but it was difficult to extract. The chemist who made the extraction of cordite from horse chestnuts possible on an industrial scale was Chaim Weizmann, a leading Zionist. Lloyd George was so grateful to Weizmann that he permitted the chemist free access to A J Balfour, the man behind the Balfour Declaration. Weizmann went on to be instrumental in the founding of the State of Israel and became its first President.

Regardless of where you stand on the Palestine issue, keep that in mind the next time you play conkers.

2
Con Coleman | 29 October 2009 - 3:13pm

Iceland

is self-sufficient in pineapples

0
Sheev | 29 October 2009 - 6:35pm

Frozen?

'

0
Black Type | 29 October 2009 - 9:27pm

And isn't Iceland a hive of genetic research...

... because the whole indigenous population is derived from only a few hundred families?

(I suppose we all are, come to that, but you know what I mean...)

0
Metal Mickey | 30 October 2009 - 10:57am

The latest on the Battle of Bosworth field

suggests that Henry VII defeated a force twice the size of his because he had (or his French mercenaries had) primitive cannon and arqeb,arq, erm, primitive handguns.

0
Richie B | 29 October 2009 - 9:23pm

In my wee shop in Aberdeen...

a foreign gent came in to join my DVD Club.....on seeing his ID, I said "Ah, another Polish Fella".
He said. "Piss off, I'm from Lithuania... if you ask me, there are too many Poles here in Aberdeen. They all want to f**k off back to Warsaw and leave us well alone, taking our jobs, the b******s".
True story.

0
geacher53 | 29 October 2009 - 10:02pm

rather chillingly

The Wannsee conference of 1942, which met partly discuss the specifics of how the final solution of the Jewish question would be implemented, lasted for only about an hour and a half. In this meeting, which discussed deportation, further sterilisation and execution of European Jews, was also to assert the authority of Reinhard Heydrich over the carrying out of the plans. He actively wanted to be in control of the decimation of millions of people. There was music on in the background. It was Bach's Brandenburg concertos (according the guide we had when we there).

Hitler wasn't even there.

0
badger_king | 30 October 2009 - 10:54am

Branagh

Our Ken was in a brilliant dramatisation of this - somehow the banality of the office politics of the conference helped explain how it could happen more plausibly than any grander theory.

0
paulwright | 30 October 2009 - 11:56am

Definitely

The fact that this was a strategy meeting like any other, including all the associated jostling for position and brown-nosing for brownie points, makes it all the more chilling.

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Archie Valparaiso | 30 October 2009 - 1:05pm

What also fascinates me

are archival recordings of key meetings in history, both as antidotes to popular conspiracy theories, and, sometimes, as examples of the banality of truth.

Nothing *too* banal about these, imo, though, except in a Kubrickian kind of way:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/audio.htm

RFK: How are you doing Bob?
McNamara: Well. How about yourself?
RFK: All right.
McNamara: You got any doubts?
RFK: Well, no. I think that we're doing the only thing we can do, and well, you know.
[Inaudible]
McNamara: I think the one thing, Bobby, we ought to seriously do before we act is be damned sure they understand the consequences. In other words, we need to really show them where we are now, because we need to have two things ready: a government for Cuba, because we're going to need one--we go in with bombing aircraft; and, secondly, plans for how to respond to the Soviet Union in Europe, because sure as hell they're going to do something there.

[...]

Dillon: You have to pick out the things they might--
McNamara: Well, I think, that's right.
[Unclear]
McNamara: I would suggest that it will be an eye for an eye.
Dillon: That's the mission.
Unidentified: I'd take Cuba back.
Unidentified: I'd take Cuba away from Castro.
Unidentified: Suppose we make Bobby mayor of Havana.

while this is a fascinating (to Space-heads at least) insight into the realpolitik of Apollo:

http://history.nasa.gov/JFK-Webbconv/pages/backgnd.html

Now, this may not change anything about that schedule but at least we ought to be clear, otherwise we shouldn’t be spending this kind of money because I’m not that interested in space

--JFK

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SpaceBoy | 2 November 2009 - 8:39pm

Happy 75th birthday BBC Maida Vale Studios

There are some interesting programmes on Radio 4 at present charting it's illustrious past.

Seems the suburb of Maida Vale was named after the Battle of Maida (4 July 1806), which was a British victory against the First French Empire outside the town of San Pietro di Maida in Calabria, Italy, then a part of the Kingdom of Naples.

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Beany | 31 October 2009 - 1:45am

Getting Sold Down the River

comes from the practice of the more prosperous slave-owners of the Northern states selling-off their surplus slaves down the Mississippi River to the`poorer and less salubrious plantations

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On The Fence | 31 October 2009 - 6:28pm

Googly

Bernard James Tindal Bosanquet (1877-1936)invented this "greatest conjuring trick in the history of the game (of cricket)". A ball which, on leaving the bowler's hand, seems to be a leg-break (heading for the off-stump)but instead, cunningly breaks the other way, towards the leg-stump.
Devised originally as a party-piece to amuse the other players of his side, it devastated the cricketers of Australia and New Zealand when he used it against them on the 1902 tour of those countries by Lord Hawke's team.
The tourists won all 18 of their games in New Zealand and then caused the collapse of the home team when Lord Hawke's side travelled on to Australia. England beat the Aussies by 157 runs and regained the Ashes. Someone asked Bosanquet if his googly might be illegal. "No," he replied, "Only immoral."

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Mike_H | 1 November 2009 - 2:01am

Between 1851 and 1859

the total amount of claims submitted to State of California Comptroller for Expeditions against Native American Indians (mostly carried out by militia)was $1,293,179.20.

I should have added more to this posting - but it would be interesting to know what the modern day equivalent of $1M in 1855 would be. These militia were put together basically to oppress and murder the Native Americans in California. 'The Gold Rush' provided a backdrop to this activity which decimated the tribes in the West.

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Badlands | 3 November 2009 - 12:31am

Leo Fender

...designer of several of the most popular/influential electric guitars (the telecaster, stratocaster and precision bass in particular) couldn't play a note.

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Malc | 2 November 2009 - 4:36pm

And

was by all accounts a terrible, or at least utterly disinterested, businessman. Associates, his wife and friends truly ran his Fender enterprise. He foozled about in his workshop with his soldering iron a lot of the time.

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Beezer | 2 November 2009 - 5:40pm

The first ship to attend the stricken Titanic

was captained by the great grandfather of Buster Bloodvessel.

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Albert Edward | 2 November 2009 - 4:48pm

And the cry was heard across the bridge...

"Ship up, fatty!"

1
Black Type | 2 November 2009 - 5:00pm

And...

"Here come the ancestor of the fatty ska star,
to reggae on up your maritime disaster."

1
Albert Edward | 2 November 2009 - 5:19pm

Titanic trivia

Arthur Rostron, captain of the RMS Carpathia and Stanley Lord, captain of the SS Californian were both born in that great seafaring town of Bolton.

That perhaps explains the reason for Captain Quint becoming the captain of the Orca.

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Beany | 3 November 2009 - 12:26am

In the famous picture of Billy "the Kid"

he's wearing that classic cowboy hard man garment a baggy student cardy!

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Chris G | 2 November 2009 - 11:24pm

During The Irish Famine

In 1845, Ottoman Sultan Abdülmecid declared his intention to send 10,000 sterling to Irish farmers but Queen Victoria requested that the Sultan send only 1,000 sterling, because she had sent only 2,000 sterling. The Sultan sent the 1,000 sterling but also secretly sent 3 ships full of food. The English courts tried to block the ships, but the food arrived at Drogheda harbour and was left there by Ottoman sailors.

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Gramsci | 3 November 2009 - 11:54am
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