Entertainment For Lively Minds
Admission Impossible - new podcast streaming now!
Posted by David Hepworth on 1 April 2008 - 2:47pm.
In this week's podcast Mark Ellen and David Hepworth get together with Matt Hall and James Medd to chew over the rights and wrongs and practicalities of the current tickets crisis. How did the audience for live music get so big? How do people go about getting tickets nowadays? Why is everybody so cross? Why are prices so high?
In the current issue of the magazine James writes about these and many other issues. You can read James's feature here.
Elsewhere in this podcast we've interviewed Seatwave CEO Joe Cohen about what they're calling "secondary ticketing". (I'd like to apologise in advance for calling him Sam in the podcast. Long day.) Go here to subscribe or listen.










I hope that you do...
...more of these 'behind the scenes of the music industry' type articles, as I find them really interesting.
I don't have a credit card. As I think James said in the podcast, this eliminates any chance of me obtaining tickets for a show where the demand greatly outstrips the supply. It's kind of stopped me going from going to see live music.
The last time that I went to see a band was in 2006, at The Borderline Club, in London. Getting hold of a ticket in advance entailed travelling up to London on the train, a month before the gig was due to take place, in the hope that the box office at The Astoria would be open. To anyone who is used to buying their tickets, either online or over the phone this must sound medieval.
It sure does!
"To anyone who is used to buying their tickets, either online or over the phone this must sound medieval."
Hope you get over the Credit Crunch!
Bernard Cribbins
wonderful to hear Mssr Hepworth & Ellen singing "Hole In Ground", personally, I want more of this. And as for Bernard Cribbings ( National Institution[tm] )he is not only "above ground and vertical" but featuring in the new series of Doctor Who.
Highway code
My Dad had this record - and also one with some bods singing the Highway Code like a choir singing a hymn. Dunno who it was. Temperance Seven? What were they on?
It was The Mastersingers
They also did the weather forecast
I have copies of both of these, lofted along with all my other 7" singles.
Gigs becoming 'social events'...
is the reason I've stopped going to them. I loved listening to live music, but over the last few years the problem of people talking loudly throughout has got so bad that I just can't bring myself to go anymore. So thanks a lot, whoever you are, because one of my great pleasures in life has been taken away because YOU want to gossip about last night's episode of whatever crap was on TV instead of listening to the music. I am trying to keep a lid on how I feel here, as I am royally pissed off by the behaviour of many gig-goers these days.
Rant over.
Couldn't agree more
I have also stopped going to gigs as I am now unable to keep my temper in check when it comes to those selfish sods who have no consideration for anyone else. The talkers (usually discussing whether Pete and Fiona will get back together for Alex's dinner party next Saturday - for the duration of the entire performance), the mobile phones alofters (or the phone chatters - "I can't hear you, sorry" - that's because you're standing by the PA, you prick), the snoggers, the push past to get to the bar set (usually the same people, every other song - why not just go to the pub, for God's sake).
Have you ever noticed that the more expensive the gig, the more of these kinds of people are there?
God, yes.
I suggested that the people behind me enjoy the support act from comfort of the bar if they wanted to talk all the way through it (a seated gig mind, so no danger of them losing their place) and they looked at me as if I was from Mars and then continued ruining my evening.
The last gig I went to was Radiohead at Hammersmith Odeon...
wherever I stood, there was some arsehole talking and ruining my evening. Eventually I made my way to the back of the venue where it was quiet for a couple of minutes. Then a couple started talking really loudly and I said to them "Could you keep the noise down... I'm trying to listen." They reacted really angrily and the guy had to be restrained by his girlfriend from attacking me.
I spent the remainder of the gig sat in between two sets of fire doors sat in complete darkness, listening to the music. I figured although I couldn't see anything, it was way preferable to what had gone before.
Without sounding too precious, when a particular song hits the right spot during a concert it is a spiritual experience for me. I am transported somewhere else, somewhere where the everyday hassles of life evaporate and I'm truly happy. It seems to me that many concert goers these days regard the evening's entertainment as something to provide background noise for their inane conversations.
I hate those bastards, and they make me despair of people.
On Radio 2 now in case you don't know
I sympathise with you viewpoint by the way.
Thank you...
I'm listening to it now. If anyone talks during the songs my Apple Mac is going for an unplanned trip through the window.
I'm taking the big step
of going to see Radiohead in Victoria Park this summer. I am looking forward to it and dreading it in equal measure. I already know what sort of people will be there. Last time I saw them was at their big open air homecoming show in Oxford a few years back. The whole day was ruined by a gang of blokes behind me who were so drunk that they paid absolutely no attention to what was going on onstage. No matter where I stood, they always ended up just a few feet behind me. Bastards spoilt my whole day.
I was once at an acoustic Spiritualized show - the shows he did not long after he recovered from an almost fatal bout of pneumonia - so it was poignant in so many ways - apart from the woman sitting in front of me, who spent the first fifty minutes of the show talking loudly into her phone to a friend, describing the date she went on the previous evening. After half an hour of this, I leant forward and said to her "Are you going to see him again?" in a rather sarcastic tone.
Her response? "Excuse me. This is a private conversation." She then carried on talking for another twenty minutes.
Priceless.
Yuck
All big gigs are the same - when they become "events" they stop being about the music. Case in point the Genesis show at Old Trafford. By selling 'hospitality' type tickets that included free drink it ensured a steady supply of drunken fuckwits around me talking and journeying back and forth to the bar all evening.
A friend bought me a ticket...
but I very much doubt whether I'll take him up on it. My perfect Radiohead gig would be them performing outdoors to me alone. Sod the 'shared experience' of gigs... I want a unique, personal experience, sadly only possible these days with a total absence of the aforementioned twats.
Singers
Magnificent rant PC - let's not forget wankers singing along. Now this is fine at the peak of the gig on anthemic numbers - but I went to a gig last week where the twat behind me sang loudly into my left ear throughout a series of 5 quiet numbers, till I politely asked him to stop - "I'm tying to have a good time" he whined - so am I, watching the gig, I replied. He wasn't happy!
Incidently the jazz cafe used (maybe still does for all I know - haven't been there for ages) to have STFU in huge letters on all the pillars - Shut The Fuck Up! Too right.
Glee Club
Patrick...........get to Brum and try the Glee.........almost cathedral-like silence which seems to throw a number of performers!
Sounds...
wonderful! Plus at every gig I've ever been to in Birmingham (not a huge number, but more than 5!), the audiences have been brilliant... really into the music, rather than a lot of London audiences who seem to be giving out a silent message of 'impress me'.
Can I just say...
...how much I enjoyed Mr. Ellen's impersonations of Messrs Jagger and Richards?
As for the scramble for tickets for 'big' gigs, I don't bother! I wait for the DVDs to come out- or in Genesis' case they did a simulcast of a gig in Dusseldorf in a cinema, which was good enough for me.
This is what we want!
Wizened, rawk-world-weary hacks talking non-world-shattering meandering bollocks for three quarters of an hour. Ah, bliss. I really missed it the last couple of weeks.
"Tonight the role of Ron Wood will be played by Ry Cooder", indeed. Keep it up, chaps.
Less of the wizened
James Medd is quite fresh faced.
Yet more ticket woe today.
I quite fancied seeing Blondie/The Stranglers at Liverpool, but the promoter has deemed everything up to Row X (!) on the floor to be gold circle, and has also decided not to sell any of the front 'few' rows (I never saw anything further forward than Row T!) at anything less than £180 along with drinks and a buffet.
So fuck it. I won't be seeing Paul Simon at the summer pops. I won't be seeing Blondie. I won't be seeing Crowded House, and I'll keep my £150. All of them have this same idiot ticketing structure. I hope they're left with a load of unsold seats and the bands play to an empty front half of the venue. Or best case, the bands will be playing to people who've availed themselves of the free bar to make their money back and have more money than sense and more alcohol in them than interest in the band. Good luck to them.
Spelling tests
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Shakespear's Sister name themselves after The Smiths' song Shakespeare's Sister (itself a reference to Virginia Woolf, I think)?
From what I can recall, the spelling error came from a low-level member of the record company, who took it upon himself to 'correct' the name of the group by removing the final 'e'. This wasn't picked up by anyone else until after their first record had been printed, and the decision was made to keep the shorter name.
At least, that's what I heard.
Danish aristocracy
Last week, when you spoke to Supergrass and asked them about their parents' record collection, I thought what my answer would be. Nina & Frederik, thought I. Imagine my surprise, when the venerable Baron and his then-consort popped up in the Medd collection today. I spent the next few minutes mentally sippin' cider through a straw.
A quick check of Wikipedia discloses that Fred and his second wife had a rather shadier life. They were murdered in the Philippines in 1994, apparently by a member of the Australian crime syndicate for which they provided transportation for drug trafficking. Nina appears to be still alive.
Supergrass etc
You referenced Supergrass's response to the secondary ticketing issue, David, and what I heard were two people not knowing what the feck you were talking about. I think you gave them credit that wasn't due.
I too enjoyed this week's pod for having a specific topic and a good interview (with someone who DID know the meaning of the question), though I think his 25% combined fee revenue was pretty steep. My experience of buying / selling tickets outside a venue that is "sold out" - relax, you can ALWAYS get in and it is bloody hard to sell a genuinely unwanted ticket. Happened to me at both a Morrissey and a Strokes gig, both of which had sold out online in a morning. I literally couldn't give them away.
Used to it
I read and commented at length on the original article, but just listened to the Podcast and was interested to hear it expanded upon.
The thing about being online when it goes on sale, I don't really understand the problem. It's not always convenient, but it is for the most part manageable. The instant sell-out thing does tend to be more towards the really big acts so for a lot of gigs I go to it is not necessary, only once in a while do I need to be on at the exact moment.
Here is a recent event which relates to two elements you've discussed: A friend and I were going to go and see Neil Young, and like most gigs these days there was no announcement of price before the sale began. He was booking the tickets. At 9.05am, I got a text saying it was too expensive so he hadn't booked. I was not prepared to miss this, but I don't tend to go to gigs alone either. On this occasion however I was determined and given it was a bit pricey I wasn't going to buy 2 and drag along my good lady. With the clock running and no time to convince someone else to fork out £70plus of their hard-earned (including fees of course) I made it to a PC by 10 and was relieved and delighted that it had not yet sold out.
I have a problem with the secret prices because, knowing a show like this would sell out, it destroyed the opportunity of me having someone to go with. It turned out later someone else I did know had booked...for his gig the evening before mine.
Still, I can only blame the price secret for this. His audience were neither talkers nor socialites, they were enchanted. I kept checking that day to see when it did sell out, and somehow it lasted until the following morning. I would have been bewildered that anyone would be naive enough to think there would be tickets left a day later and so on this occasion I was proved wrong (just). I do still think that as long as you know that this is how it is, you just have to make the effort. Typing your card details into a computer at the right time is no effort compared to making a specific trip out to the Box Office.
Ultimately I must finish by telling you that I am 25. I've not really known any different. I am used to it.
PS>Gig-talkers should be removed by the staff, but like bus drivers with problem passengers, no one wants a confrontation. I do agree shows are over-priced in the first place, all the more reason never to buy from a tout! But people tour so much these days, you'll probably get another chance...
Cribbins
Nice to hear the great Bernard Cribbins getting the thumbs-up. As well as the records, The Railway Children etc. let's not forget his part as a hotel inspector in an episode of Fawlty Towers. And of course hiss narration of The Wombles which was a crucial part of its appeal. Did the most Jackanorys too. Worthy of a Word interview I'd say.
Hugh Cornwell is nothing to do with From The Jam. It's Bruce Foxton and Rick Buckler, plus a couple of other blokes. Haven't seen them but people I know who have say they're surprisingly good.
Cribbins
A true legend you are right Richard worthy of a Word interview. And there would be alot of ground to cover. Wasn't he in "She" as well.
I always wished someone had done something similar with Richard Widmark and now its too late.
You never know
with someone like that whether they'll be a treasure trove of great anecdotes or rather boring. But The Word's a good forum for all these old showbiz people, in that it's not just a rock magazine, and they're dropping like flies. Glad Word bagged Alan Coren before he handed in his dinner pail. A great interview too.
Nibbins with Cribbins
Interview proposal seconded. I'm not sure what I'd, er, want to ask him, really, though. "How old are you?"
Ticket Fever
Great podcast, thanks to all involved, not least Hepworth in new roving reporter role. I got struck by this online ticket fever after missing out on Leonard Cohen. Not in the least bit proud of raiding the kitchen jar to pay almost £150 for a ticket on Double 8, a reselling site. Like most of these sites, they only tell you what area you'll be sat in and don't send the tickets until just before the date. I suspect a lot more horsetrading will happen between now and then: sites getting hold of more tickets, speculation, deals made. All leaving me and others to get what we're given seat allocation wise (and block B of the 02 looks about 2 square miles in size). I'm tending to agree with James' conclusion in the magazine, go to more small gigs, so I'll be at the Borderline if anyone's looking for me.
Ticket Fever
Ticket Fever this morning like - it's Glastonbury day!