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Addressing the Bishop

Paul Waring's picture

Oh please. Behave yourselves.

I was in a meeting today, and a real life bishop was there as well. It struck me, as I went up to introduce myself, that I had never met a bishop before and had no idea how I should address him.

Your Grace?
Your Holiness?
Your Worship?
Bish?
Dave?

In the end, I did away with the whole title thing and just said 'Hello, nice to meet you'.

But it did get me wondering what I should have said, and whether my belief (or lack of) should make a difference? (For what it's worth, the bishop and I 'kick with different feet'.)

Or should I even be bothering with this sort of thing in this day and age?

(BTW: He was a very nice bishop, and didn't insist I 'kissed his ring' or anything. Although he did pronounce 'illuminate' as 'illyouminate', which I thought was a very bishopy thing to do.)

1

Your Bishopship, innit?

0
kb | 27 October 2011 - 4:36pm

I think it's traditional

to kneel before his bishopric.

Government ministers are difficult too. If you're introducing them its "the right honourable Jim Hacker, secretary of state for administrative affairs" but after that it's 'Minister'. I think.

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Captain Underpants | 27 October 2011 - 4:49pm
Nick White | 27 October 2011 - 4:58pm

"Len"

Is the answer, as any fule know

4
sitheref2409 | 27 October 2011 - 5:01pm

I saw Jim Norton (bishop brennan)

in serious theatre onceuponatime. Couldn't take him seriously...once the urge to kick him up the arse had passed, I still heard him saying 'don't call me Len you little bollix' over and over in me head!

0
ivan | 27 October 2011 - 5:05pm
herringbrother | 28 October 2011 - 2:31pm

I believe it's "Your Grace"

I went to school at a time when we were taught these things. Kids of today etc etc... :-)

0
stimpy | 27 October 2011 - 5:08pm

I think

It is Your Excellency.

But why call him that if you are (or may be) an atheist who doesn't think being a bishop is at all excellent.

I would think 'Oh, 'allo!' should suffice.

0
clivetemple | 27 October 2011 - 5:14pm
stimpy | 27 October 2011 - 7:03pm

In Duck Soup...

...Groucho Marx is the President of Freedonia.

Margaret Dumont addresses him: 'Your Excellency!'

Groucho: 'You're not so bad yourself.'

1
Inky Fingers | 27 October 2011 - 10:11pm

It's Sir to you...

I was taught long ago that if you were ever unsure of how to address somebody, then a simple "Sir" (or "Ma'am") was a pretty safe fall-back position.

0
MrLovegrove | 27 October 2011 - 5:35pm

More tea

vicar, should suffice

0
happy harry | 27 October 2011 - 6:21pm

Military vicars

military vicars are known as Padres.

Known to all as "Bish"

(or "Sin bosun" behind his back)

0
jackthebiscuit | 27 October 2011 - 6:51pm

The only time I've met a bishop (to my knowledge),

was when hitch hiking from Plymouth to Exeter in student days. A nice chap responded to my optimistic thumb at the Marsh Mills roundabout on the A38, and after saying thanks for the lift, the conversation drifted along various random paths as we sped up the road towards the county town. Only when we'd travelled a fair few miles did he ask me what I did. On reporting that I was indeed, as I think he'd worked out, an impecunious undergraduate, I returned with the question, "What do you do?". "I'm a bishop.", came the reply. I think it's fair to say that I was stumped.

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 27 October 2011 - 7:11pm

Marty will tell you

Depends if it's the bishop on a train ...

0
adze thuggery | 27 October 2011 - 7:19pm

Two bishops

One cool

One decidedly not cool

[This one should not be addressed at all, merely squashed with a giant cherub's foot]

0
Moose the Mooche | 27 October 2011 - 8:00pm

never mind all that,

how *else* do you pronounce illuminate?

0
another Iain | 27 October 2011 - 9:29pm

ill oo min ate

rather than ill you min ate

0
Glenbervie | 27 October 2011 - 9:35pm

oh

I'm with the bishop. I wonder where he's from.

0
another Iain | 27 October 2011 - 10:34pm

I met him in York

Which is, I think, where he does his bishop stuff.

He did seem to particularly enjoy the 'eeyooo' bit he put in 'illuminate' above and beyond what I would consider normal pronunciation of the word.

He rolled it around his mouth in the manner of former Tory leader Michael Howard enjoying the 'ell' sound in certain words and phrases.

I am trying to avoid the use of the word 'camp' here but I'm struggling badly.

0
Paul Waring | 27 October 2011 - 10:49pm

I'm with the Bishop too.

I bet he pronounces Parliament correctly, too (with the letter I clearly audible.)

0
Wardour | 27 October 2011 - 10:56pm

My dad, who should know...

...tells me it's "Lord Bishop" until he tells you otherwise, which he will ("Please. Call me Marcus.")

That's if we're talking Anglican. If it's one of these papists I've been hearing about, all bets are off.

Your Grace is cardinals. Your Excellency is ambassadors.

0
Bob | 27 October 2011 - 9:54pm

He was definitely 'right-footed'.

It's me that kicks with the left.

Joking aside, he was a lovely bloke with no obvious expectations about title or form of address.

All of this is totally in my head. And I suspect if I'd addressed him as 'Lord Bishop', however correct that might actually be, I think he'd have been mortified.

0
Paul Waring | 27 October 2011 - 10:53pm

Call a cardinal "Your Grace"...

and you're cruising for a racking round these parts. It's "Your Eminence".

Orthodox patriarchs have bagged the best one, though: "Your Beatitude".

0
Archie Valparaiso | 28 October 2011 - 9:14am

Shit, of course you're right.

Is Grace dukes then?

0
Bob | 28 October 2011 - 2:39pm

Altar egos

In my experience, the priest will adopt a sing-song, pious sounding voice when they are "performing" at a mass. This ushers in the notion of the unnecessary elongation of words. It is a tone of voice very close to singing but remains a monotone that, thankfully, is very easy to tune out.

At some point in the seminary training, the priest promises to praise Him by "singing unending hymns of praise", so that's why they do that. It also makes their voice stand out a bit if there's general chatter in the pews, which is common in many countries.

Most priests revert back to their proper voices after mass. Like Kate Bush. She wouldn't screech at you at the butter counter at Tesco would she? However, some priests cling on to the "stage" voice and they can't help it using it all the time. Like Keith Richards.

As with the illuminate example, "christ" often becomes "ker-rysht" and "sacrifice" becomes "sah-carr-if-ishe". Like Liam Gallagher.

So the men of the cloth that talk in that way...they mean it, man. They live it 24/7. That's why the guy referred to in the OP is a Bishop. It's not a day job to someone like that.

1
Austin | 27 October 2011 - 9:58pm

it could be geographical

as I'm not a bishop but I put the you in illuminate. Doesn't everybody, I thought. I'm from the Highlands.

0
another Iain | 27 October 2011 - 10:38pm

Using titles

Whenever I've been told that you're supposed to address people with a certain title, it's always ended up being a bit unwieldy actually using it. I wouldn't ever say things like "hello sir", simply "hello". I don't think I've used anyone's title since leaving school.

As far as a religious leader is concerned, surely they wouldn't expect any kind of deference from anybody outside their chosen denomination.

0
JohnW | 27 October 2011 - 10:04pm

I'm not sure they necessarily 'expect' anything

but it's a common courtesy to use the correct form of address if someone is sufficiently eminent in their field to warrant an honorific whether they be a senior figure in the forces, the church, academia or the aristocracy. It's just polite :-)

0
stimpy | 28 October 2011 - 1:30pm

I'm the Personal Assistant to a Bishop

And it is customary to address a Bishop in conversation as "Bishop" (their name).

If you are on familiar terms with the Bishop though you may address them as "Father" (their name).

I should add that in the latter case, the Bishop I work for should be addressed as "Mother".

0
Stephen Dowell | 27 October 2011 - 10:14pm

Thanks Stephen

See my comments above.

I hope that it's clear from my posts above that I am addressing my own inadequacies and insecurities here, and that the bishop in question is a lovely man who exhibited absolutely no side or expectations whatsoever about how he should be addressed.

I got the impression very quickly that he was happiest with his first name only, rather than with any variation on his job title!

0
Paul Waring | 27 October 2011 - 10:59pm

"Illyouminate"

Nice touch.

0
kidpresentable | 27 October 2011 - 10:51pm

Isn't "Address the Bishop!"

something that Frank keeps saying in Blue Velvet?

2
Moose the Mooche | 27 October 2011 - 10:52pm

Always remember: he's wearing pink underpants

Hugh Dennis's father was the Bishop of Ipswich and I remember him saying in an interview a few years ago that the thing you always have to bear in mind if you meet a bishop is that the chances are he's wearing pink underpants. They wear purple vestments that tend to run in the wash.

0
Richard Lowe | 27 October 2011 - 11:10pm

One of my patients is an underbishop.

Archdeacon is, I believe, the title. He's a lovely bloke of the right-footed persuasion. We were discussing the various terms of address and he said that, in the Anglican church, they really don't care much about the official titles. So much of it dates from the social heirarchies of the Victorian time when members of the clergy were all absolutely loaded and everyone toadied like mad.

I still call him Archdeacon (his surname) to his face because it is the correct term of address. And I know it annoys him, but, secretly, he likes it.

0
Lenny Law | 27 October 2011 - 11:51pm

Bishop Ball

The former Bishop of Lewes was presumably, at some earlier point in his career, Canon Ball.

0
Captain Underpants | 28 October 2011 - 8:53am

Why not just

Mr. Bishop?

0
Mark JF | 28 October 2011 - 10:10am

Glad you were respectful to him Paul and didn't...

...bash the Bishop

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Olthwaite | 28 October 2011 - 1:20pm

Or do anything really terrible.

Like this.

0
Moose the Mooche | 28 October 2011 - 1:50pm
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