Entertainment For Lively Minds
Active or Passive? No, not what you think.
Over in the hifi world there is a massive argument between proponents of loudspeakers with active cross-overs i.e. built-in amps in the speaker cabinet and passives i.e. powered by traditional hifi amp.,
There's an even more vicious split between traditional set-ups like Naim and Linn and the users of a combined speaker and DAC from a company called AVI.
Visiting those forums is like entering in a wormhole in space formed in the middle of the Rob Fitzpatrick FAQ thread.
I imagine quite a few here are familiar with studio set-ups of active speakers and whether that has influenced their listening source at home.
As we all love music with a passion I wondered how most hear listen to it. Pod dock? CD-Amp-Speakers? Computer-DAC-Actives?
- Full disclosure: I own a pair of passive AVI speakers but have absolutely no connection with any manufacturer or seller.
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Probably a bit to estoric
Probably a bit to estoric for here but I thought I would reply with my limited experience of this. I have heard a big pair of ATC's and they were great but a little relentless. I have a linn/naim set up myself and if I was starting over I would probably give the active route a serious ponder. HI-Fi ends to go through phases but good gear is generally the way forward whichever route you take.
Phases come and phases go, but the old stuff endures
QUAD IIs/ESL 57s here. Over 40 years old and still at least as good as anything I've ever heard.
Damn !!!
Thought we were going to enter the Wonderful World Of Verbs. Archie and Middlerabbit Round 2 will have to wait.
Ha
No, my worry was that some might think it was about whether to have a handkerchief in the back left or right jeans pocket...
Aah...
I came here to give my considered opinion on the latest interpretations of the offside law.
Actives here
I have active Mackie HR824 monitors for my home studio set-up but to be honest I am quite as happy listening to most music on my laptop speakers. Over the years, I've got less and less convinced that hi-fi set ups are necessary to the main business of just enjoying the music. Detailed comparison listening sessions on the Mackies with the Genesis SACD format only revealed minor differences from the original CD mixes and with the multitude of possible changes that remixing and remastering present, I am never sure whether it is the active speakers that are making the difference or something the engineers tweaked. That said, the SACD mix of War of the Worlds sounds awesome.
I can detect the differences of the remastered Kraftwerk catalogue quite clearly but it's only enhancing my pleasure of these albums by a few percent as they are brilliant before anyone starts updating them. I suppose I should respect the fact that Kraftwerk believe this is how they should always have sounded and that is interesting in itself and so to me , it's worth the investment in a music set-up that can reveal the differences.
Conclusion
For me, it's the quality of the speaker rather than where the amplifier sits in the chain that makes the difference.
gb
Ok..
Source: 128 kbs feed from the 'puter or Napster.
Fed through: A Sonos box. Which is a bit of kit currently making audiophiles gnash their teeth because it makes a limited stream sound so good. It's not right.
Fibre-optic link to a: Musical Fidelity X-DAC
Thereon OFCs to an Arcam Alpha 9
Fed through bi-wired OFCs to a pair of great big floor-standing spike mounted Eltax stacks.
I used to use an Alpha 9 CD player. The Sonos box sounds just as good. My local audiophile shop is selling them by the yard. Get one.
Active or passive crossovers? Come in James Randi. Put it to a poperly constructed triple-blind randomised test.
Seems a shame to have a nice hardware stack like that then
feed it with 128kbps mp3s :-(
Stimps.. read the post again..
The Sonos box manages to do strange things with a crap 128kbs bitstream. Quite how is a mystery but you can stand it up against serious kit (my alpha 9 CD player for one) and the difference is.. well.. there isn't one.
I was talking about this with a chap in our local audiophile haunt. It is causing much head-scratching. They've got a Sonos wired into one of their super-duper demo systems alongside a Musical Fidelity CD player and a fully spaffed Linn turntable / arm / cartridge / stylus combo.
There is a slight difference in the sound each produces, but all sound excellent. Cue much huffery and gruffery.
But... but...
surely a crap 128kbps bitstream will always remain so? You can't magically add signal back into it if it isn't already there.
I don't doubt your word that it sounds good to you but it just doesn't make logical sense. Have you tried putting a higher quality lossy bitstream into the same signal path? What about a FLAC of the same music?
I'd love to get my frequency analyser in there and find out what's really going on!
(baffled)
It needs looking at..
Because it makes absolutely no sense.
But I'm not complaining..
Play according to the RIAA curve
One might guess that coming new players like Sonos et al, and older players who want to flourish e.g. Naim, are learning very quickly about digital filters that flatter inputs like MP3 ?
After all LPs weren't exactly the most linear of media and engineers learned how to get the best out of them over many years.
Meanwhile, seems like a wait and see policy on the Naim may be a good idea--will want to try one of these as well ---
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/30666/naim-unitiquite-all-in-one-high-en...
For what it's worth
Was interested to see what one can now get in the way of upsampling kit. e.g. this:
http://www.howtospendit.com/#/articles/1449-technopolis-cambridge-audio-...
Clearly it can't put back what ain't there-but presumably it *can* make an educated guess, which for some music may well work quite well. One wonders to what extent Sonos are also using similar tech-it would clearly be worth their while to do so.
Bought one of these yesterday
Particularly good on upgrading a humble USB output on a 7 year old XP laptop-can now enjoy Spotify, and web radio to a very high standard. I think it's the combination of the high quality DAC and the upsampling but the filters are described here:
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets/documents/AP239051DacMagicUserManua...
I've worked in the wonderful
wacky world of hi-fi for most of my adult life. There's good & bad passive systems and there's good & bad active systems. As long as you like what you hear, what does it matter what type of system you have? I talk to people 5 days a week who get their proverbial knickers in a twist about THDs, dB levels, the number of watts per channel and all the rest of it. I always tell them the same thing: If you get home from work after a tough day, pour yourself a drink and put some music on, and you get to the end of the CD and your first thought is "what shall I listen to next?" your system is doing something right. It doesn't matter what components are in the system or how that system measures - you're enjoying the music and that's what counts.
Have been interested in the "AVI vs the world" story myself
as I am trying to rationalise a one box Arcam hi-fi in my flat that has rather large speakers (old Mission 770s), and 3 extra AV bits (VCR, DVD and PVR) as well as the telly.
Have posted on and off here on the topic-got as far as trying the AVI ADM9s in a London dealer and being quite impressed. Tried it both with my iPod/Apple lossless (via the dock from a Fatman I think), and with a Cyrus CD player directly into its digital input iirc.
The AVI speakers that really intrigue me though are the new Neutrons
http://www.avihifi.co.uk/neutron.html
as they have incorporated switchable inputs into the subwoofer. haven't heard them though.
What I did hear though, on Saturday, was the Naim Uniti driving these
http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/silver-rx/rx8/your-speaker
, with inputs including iPod, streaming FLAC, CD and internet radio. Very impressed-especially what it can do with my iPod (mixture of AAC, Lossless and MP3). *Extremely* thought provoking.
Them big buggers..
They look just like my big Eltaxes.
Which have been given new life with new speaker cable.
plan A
at the moment is
1. Keep the Missions--sound great, look agreeably retro
http://www.hifiengine.com/images/model/mission_770.jpg
not worth anything s/h anyway
2. Replace all the AV kit (finally phase out VHS) with one of these
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/News/Latest+news/Panasonic+introdu...
(after dvd chipping and a demo to see how usable it is)
3. and in time, after some more research as to alternatives, get the Naim.
http://www.naimuniti.com/about.php
What really impressed me and the FPO was how well the Naim handled its iPod input, far better sound than one might expect--not just with Apple lossless but with Apple downloads and 320 kbps MP3. We differed on overall sound, she felt the lower end of the system was a bit vague esp with CD-I just liked the extreme vividness--perhaps what Naim fans and reviewers always talk about.
Tried a lot of music: "Black eyed dog", a Word CD, Bach harsichord, Bach Magnificat, Emily van Evera's "My Lady Rich", Stan Getz etc etc.
Will report further if anything interesting comes of this.