Intelligent Life On Planet Rock
A muppet question on mp3 players!
Posted by Diz on 6 January 2009 - 6:23pm.
I'm about to take the dive into the world of portable players and do not want to follow the ipod herd.
I'm thinking of a Creative player based on comments on past blogs but a daft question I'm sure:
What software does it use for the music? I have itunes on my PC - will this work or does it need converting to something else?
And if I want to get BBC podcasts does it work for that as well?
Thanks
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Creative
Creative players work with Windows Media Player (WMP), and I think also have some bundled software that performs similar functions. The Sync tab in WMP is used to transfer content over onto the player.
A word of warning. If you have a lot of ripped music on your hard drive that has been done using iTunes, it may not be of suitable format to use on the Creative labs player. The default format in iTunes is m4a, which WMP does not seem to recognize readily. It might be an idea to try importing into WMP to see how you get on before purchasing a player.
A big advantage of the Creative players is that they support subscription services like Napster; that means you can fill the player up with anything from their library at a flat fee (it times out if you cancel your subscription).
Despite all of this, I've never found a player that works as seamlessly as the good old iPod. My Zen is a nice little device, but it can be a bit of a hassle at times.
My Creative device
plays music files in LAME MP3 format - i.e. the bog standard MP3 format the rest of the known universe uses.
The video files it plays are WMV format.
If you're running iTunes already....
Why not the iPod?
Pretty damn impressive pieces of kit with an interface that even the GLW can tackle.
Couldn't agree more!
Why complicate things?
This just in
Apple to end music restrictions
Apple Inc has agreed to start selling digital songs from its iTunes store without copy protection software.
At present, most music downloaded from Apple's iTunes store can only be played through an iTunes interface or iPod.
The new agreement with Sony BMG, Universal, and Warner Music will end digital rights management (DRM)software currently attached to iTunes music.
The changes were announced at the end of the keynote address, at the Macworld conference in San Francisco.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7813527.stm
the downside of non iPods
is that there are very few models that don't have large capacity. If you've a lot of tunes, the Ipod Classic is the one you want - 120Gb and you'll do well to fill it. Honestly.
Creative have left the 'jukebox' market to all intents and purposes, as have iRiver, preferring to go for the 1-8 Gb market. I'm finding iTunes a bit fiddly myself, as i said on another thread, but i'm sure it's only a matter of time!
It's early days obviously...
....but I fancy these iPods might take off.
Zen X-Fi
Thanks to receiving a range of opinion and advice from the Massive, when I asked a few weeks ago, I bought a Creative 32Gb player (which promise around 8,000 songs and with the rate I'm filling it, I think that estimate is good).
You get one of those 3" CD's which loads Creative Centrale software. This allows you to rip your CD's to MP3s and to manage all your files on the player via a USB cable (also supplied). You also get Audible Manager software on the disc. This allows for, among other things, iTunes file management to an iPod. I don't know if it allows iTunes to the Creative player as I haven't neede to find out.
One criticism of the Creative player is that its randomiser isn't too random insofar as 1) it likes to select a preponderance of tracks from the top of the list ie numbers first (as in 461 Ocean Boulevard) then alpahbetical preference; 2) it seems to select an album as a favourite for the session (Laura Nyro's Eli and the 13th Confession this evening) and 3) every now and then it plays a song twice in a row (Shawn Colvin's Wichita Skyline this evening).
The sound though is very good and these quibbles aside I'm happy with it. It has an FM radio as well which has alleviated that rush home to catch the start of The Archers anxiety.
I'm with the above
Just get an iPod. Whatever you may think of Apple, Macs or Steve Jobs it is simply the best peice of kit. I've had two or three different MP3 players and while it has its downsides, overall it is simplest, most user freindly player and it has the most compatible extras. Why make life harder for yourself?
iPod
I've been using one for the past three years and I really wouldn't change it for anything else.
iPod
Get one. It's popular because it's good. And because it's popular, there are a far greater range of accessories available than for any other player. Don't be afraid to join the herd. It's nice and warm.
iPod
'tis all ye need.
Creative
have brought out wireless streaming on the X-fi which is available at 16 or 32meg and the players recognise M4A. I'm using a 20meg zen that's 4 years old or so - I won't be replacing it until it dies, there's enough flash there to suit me. The software I use is the Creative Media Source Player which is easy to use and quite unobtrusive unlike many other software suites. Podcasts are not a problem.
Out of interest, are there any Bluetooth streaming stand alone audio players out there yet?
Agreed
The creative Zen software bundle i have converts any incompatible format. The aftersales service has been very good too.
I have a 60GB model and that takes some serious filling up.
Zeconded
It's the best consumer gadget I've ever owned.
Got an iPod for Christmas
I decided not to join the herd about three years ago and got a Sony 20Gb Walkman. It worked well enough but there's a lack of accessories and you can only load it up via the incredibly unreliable Sonic Stage. It had no capacity for displaying album covers, photos or videos.
It finally went wrong and I've now joined the iPod herd and, frankly, it's so much better. The only downside is thatI'm having to rerip all my CDs as the Sony used a proprietary ripping format. Hence I'm sitting here.
Follow the herd. This time it's right.
hah - i'm here on ripping duty now here as well...
Tamla Motown Gold...disc two, now that you ask!
Futureproof your ripping
When I first decided to rip my CDs I knew that it was a massive task so I decided that what the best file type was for me (MP3s ripped with LAME at -alt-preset-standard if you're asking) and bought kit that supported that. That was four years ago and I now have a 165GB library that will work with just about any device - I'm still waiting for an ipod big enough though.
Be aware though, the ripping bit is easy - just stuff the CD in and press go - the hard bit is the manual correction of spelling, the addition of artwork and, the thing that probably annoys me more than anything, correcting the year! ... last night I bought a 38 track Stevie Wonder MP3 compilation from Amazon and every single one of the tracks was tagged as 2002 (which was the compilation date) the fact that tracks such as fingertips were also designated as R&B was the least of my worries!
I certainly don't want to go through all this again and, barring a medical breakthrough, my ears aren't going to get any better so I should never need a better standard of file.
My tagging bugbear
For some reason many download sites and sites that add tags when you're ripping CDs give African music the genre tag Reggae. I have no idea why this is - laziness, ignorance or possibly even a little bit of latent racism.
I'd stick
with laziness over possible rascism.
Adding genres to mp3s is a big bag of ****. Music is music as Alan Parker may or may not have said whilst trying to smash the system and then replace it with a better one brothers and sisters.
genre taggin'
Personally i'm a bit obsessive about genre tags on MP3s, and via genre is how I search for most music i want to listen to on my ipod. I do get a little torn sometimes though, is Fela Kuti world or funk? Or even jazz? Where does Van Morrison go? And is it acceptable to put acoustic singer songwriters such as Martha Tilston, Jose Gonzalez, Fionn Regan, etc in folk when they probably wouldn't know a Dick Gaughan tune if it slapped them in the face?
Does world music exist?!
I think this could be a whole new thread. Is there actually any such thing as World music? Presumably a Nigerian wouldn't dream of tagging Fela Kuti as world music so it's not an absolute definition. Wikipedia claims he's Afrobeat but that's an amalgam of other styles so is it more useful (in searching terms) to tag him as Jazz/Psychedelic Rock/Funk/Highlife.
Well...
I'll call whatever I like world music, since it's only me using my ipod, and not any Nigerians. But your argument means we wouldn't be allowed to use the words foreign, overseas or abroad because they mean different things depending on where you are.
I think world music is an entirely acceptable genre division and I think if you asked most people they would know exactly what is meant by it - namely traditional music, or music with traditional influences - from non English speaking cultures. It's a word, it's part of the language and language is what we use to communicate ideas. It seems to fit the job fairly well I think.
Fela Kuti himself invented the name Afrobeat so that seems to be proof that you can call music whatever you like.
Different strokes for different folks
You're right, World Music is an acceptable genre division, my point is that it means different things to different people. I don't think that many people in the UK would expect say The Dubliners to be tagged as world music but and Australian or American could consider it a reasonable tag. I've been in record shops in the States where Irish music is on the racks as a sub genre of World Music.
Worldly wise
If you ever listen to the often rather nice, occaisionaly patronising, sometimes seriously fascinating World Routes on Radio 3 they tie themselves in knots over this issue. Their problem seems to be that they feel the need to decide whether an album is world music or, say, jazz or whatever. What they fail to grasp is that something can be both world music AND jazz. In fact Fela Kuti and also probably Manu Dibango, Hugh Masekela and Mulatu Astatke and many others, can be filed neatly under either. My own problem is that on an ipod you can only give an album one genre tag.
The confusion often arises because the term 'genre' is really a catch all phrase which describes a variety of distinctions which are sometimes technical, sometimes cultural, soemtimes geographical, sometimes historical and sometimes to do with a particular scene or way of life.
Spot on
Yep! You're right. One feature I would like to see on ipods is the ability to create smart playlists like you can in iTunes.
I've itunes to stream my smart playlists around the house for years but they still don't work on ipods.
With that you would be able to include as many genres as you like in the tag and just play all the tracks that include say "Paisley Underground" in the genre. I've always found that it's a bit annoying that you can't do this.
Van's tag
put in our own genre for him. I put him down as Celtic Soul and then popped Dexy's in there with him. I change the genre tags on everything I rip to something more suitable, otherwise everything is just down as "Alternative / Punk" .
GraceNote & FreeDB
Most times that you rip CDs the track listing comes from either GraceNote or FreeDB these databases are built by us, the great unwashed public, this is why things like The Pogues can end up being termed World Music because the entry was submitted by an American!
My beef is with with companies such as Amazon that are selling me the tracks, they've manage to uniquely tag each track with their own Amazon serial number but they can't be arsed to correct the other incorrect tags.
GraceNote
The genre listings in GraceNote can be bizarre, but I'm perplexed at what the difference is between General Rock/Country/Folk and ordinary Rock/Country/Folk.
Paisley Underground
Sometimes the application used to do the ripping (and subsequent uploading of data to gracenote) includes a handy list to grab the genre from, others don't so you and up making it up yourself. If you can get in early enough (a subscriber version of a Word CD is a good example) you might be able to make up a brand new genre for a particular track - pretend you;re an early 80's NME journalist and make up a new one each week. I'm quite tempted to modify a few Long Ryders listings and change the genre to "Paisley Underground".
Beats getting
an iPPopotamus for Christmas. That's what I wanted.
Sony Walkmans
My twins got Walkmans from their gran - fine enough machines but a bloody pain to load with material. They do play some .wmv videos that ipods don't and will play video podcasts. It just takes forever to do. Ipods are so much better (family now has 6 of assorted ages, sizes and uses e.g. 2 shuffles for the gym).
I-touch
Is all you need. Any other one and you feed Mr Gates!
Like You
I'm ready to update my mp3 player and like you i was not wanting to become an ipodder.But after doing a bit of research it has become clear that the ipod was the only way to go, especially as i am wanting something bigger than 16gb, which is as big as i can seem to find that is not ipod.
Like Fraser has said, there is a reason as to why they are popular. Know i'm going to take the plunge
Apple
It goes against so many consumer gut reactions, but Apple is largely a brand that you can trust. They tend to make stuff that works.
For a limited time only
as far as the ipod goes. I have got through about four ipods through them failing, and usually just after the warranty has ended, and I'm not alone in this. The early models in particular, could be a little unreliable. My latest is still going at the moment, but I would suggest a Zen might last you longer if it is reliability you are after.
Might I just add
that, I'm told, every hard drive will eventually fail...
Perhaps
But I do think they're getting better. The 3rd Generation iPods were notorious for failing, and I had three that did. My fourth gen one is still going strong after two years of serious use and abuse, though, and the battery life doesn't seem to have suffered at all.
was that the disk drive?
or the battery? Both components were easily replaceable with a little technical know-how. I did at least a dozen such fixes for mates (I don't have an iPod, I'm the sole remaining user of Minidisc) which kept me in nice suppers for some time. Rather a shame they moved to solid state memory:-)
In each case
It was the drive, in each case the unit was still under guarantee, and in each case it was replaced, no quibble, with a new iPod, by the nice folk at the Apple Store.
Thanks all
much to digest.
So far as I can tell the only downside of the ipod world is no radio on the devices?
Don't worry
Radio never works on mobile devices. I had an iRiver with a radio and it was only ever possible to get a clear station if you stood still, the same is true for the radio on my mobile phone. Unless you've got a decent peice of kit or a big ariel like car radios have it's just not possible to get a clear radio signal while you're on the move. I suspect Apple realise this which is why they've never added radios to Ipods.
true regarding the radio
but i think i saw something in the manual about a doo-hickey you can purchase - a remote control plus headphones i think - that has a radio built into it. Once you have this plugged into your pod, a Radio option is supposed to appear...
Radio
I haven't listened to it too much, but the odd 15 minutes here and there has been OK, without too much having to reorient myself for signal.
My Zen Vision M 60Gb has been faultless from day 1
and has easy to use software (Jesus, how can anyone think that iTunes is anything other than a pile of poo?) that leaves you in control.
The software rips CDs easily and quickly and plays LAME MP3s up to 320Kbps CBR, and videos at 320 x 240 which I can transcode (with open source free software) to a suitable format from all kinds of sources. The built in FM tuner is fine.
You don't even need the software really, all you need is the supplied USB cable and Windows Explorer.
AGREED AGAIN
The radio works fine on mine too and the Video quality is excellent.
It has some nice extras too,such as an organiser and an alarm clock. If it could only make the coffee as well.
iPod Classic is a very good machine
It works.
Seems to be.
Zen and ipod are the frontrunners and as an owner of one of each i would have to say the Zen is the better value for money device.The radio does come in handy and i begrudge paying anything for the "name"which does seem to be an issue with the ipod.Got my one free off my son though so i shouldn't moan.
Another muppet question on newfangled technology
I understand that Apple have just removed drm codes, and I have even paid 60 of your Earth pence to convert three iTunes songs into drm-free format, but for some reason they still won't play on Windows Media Player. I think this is because the file-type is wrong, is this correct and is there any way to convert the song to a format which is recognisable to Windows Media Player?
For info my 3 year old, non-iPod MP3 player will only take songs through Windows Media - annoying because many digital only releases seem to be only available through iTunes
yep - you're right
You won't get a WMA file from itunes.
There's a number of ways of turning one file format into another but all of them will leave you with a poorer quality sound than the one you started with because all non-lossless compression types use different rules to determine what bits of the sound they can do away with without your ears noticing.
If nobody else suggests a free way of making the conversion you can always resort to burning the itunes files to a CD and reripping in the format of your choice.
Audacity
allows you to record whatever is playing on your pc at the pc's sound level. You can then convert to a variable kbps drm free mp3 file or WAV if you want but the quality will only be as good as the sound from your soudn card. This is probably illegal and would lead to a ten stretch in pokey so I'd never do such a thing.
No Pod
Never worked for me. Borrowed one for a weekend and spent the whole time trying to work out how to transfer songs from PC to MP3 player. Apparently, without iTunes it's not possible. What good is that? Nearly smashed the thing into little pieces. I must be getting old. Oddly enough, my IT guru (a windows certified egg-headed genius) has the same problem with them.
Bought a NWZA818 - 8GB Video MP3 Walkman Sony instead. It interfaces properly with Windows Explorer in the way the iPods don't. Drag, drop, play. Out of the box, the sound quality is at least the equal of the iPod. £15 later on Sennheiser phones and there is just no comparison.
Use Format Factory (http://format-factory.en.softonic.com/) or dB Power Amp (http://www.dbpoweramp.com/) to convert music files from the dreaded WMA (or any other format, come to that). And if you can find a copy of FairUse4WM (probably only available on BitTorrent by now) it will strip the DRM protection from paid-for downloads.
microsoft zune
Whilst on my search for new mp3 player, came across the microsoft zune, available in 80 and 120gb versions. Wondered if anyone else has any knowledge of this player, and whether anygood at all?
Muppet thanks
Thanks all for help with the above query, I'll try to avoid the ten stretch in pokey. Agree with the comment on the latest Sony Walkmen - unfortunately mine is a couple of years old and relies on no-longer-supported-by-Sony software. I may the first poor sucker in the world to own an obsolete MP3 player - C21 Betamax man :-(
P.S. If I had to be an actual Muppet I think I'd elect to be either Waldorf or Statler.
Creative Zen Touch Query
Can any of you techies advise if it's possible on a Zen to change the settings such that the volume is equalised between old quiet songs and new loud songs when compiling playlists or playing on shuffle ? Thanks
Google "MP3gain"
I've never used it so you'll have to do your own research on it.