Entertainment For Lively Minds
5 bands who were better once their 'genius' left/died
Posted by WythenshaweLinesman on 7 February 2010 - 6:23pm.
the sex pistols
joy division
genesis
pink floyd
ac/dc
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who...
...was the genius in the pistols?
Talcy Malcy
:-)
Hands off Sid!!
Sure, he probably was a cretin, and I certainly wouldn't have liked to stand as close to him as Bob Harris, Nick Kent, Nancy Spungen or countless others who copped his nastiness, but from my fairly cushy position as a schoolboy admirer, he was a total god; he WAS the genius of The Sex Pistols, and the fact that he couldn't even play his bass guitar only made him more awesome as far as I was concerned. Glen Matlock was so dull that I'd have difficulty picking him out of an identity parade if he'd stabbed me in the face.
Being a good musician has got NOWT to do with being a great pop star; you can get hippies in to play stuff.
Sex Pistols
better after Glen Matlock* left? to be replaced by the Punk Rock Cartoon that was Sid Vicious
* Assumption
edit: If by 'better' you are meaning more successful, then the statement is undoubtedly true.
And you could arguably add The Rolling Stones (post Brain Jones) to the list.
True?
I actually disagree with you on most of your examples, I'm not being awkward on purpose, I guess that everyone has a different opinion on what the best incarnation of a band was.
1.) Sex Pistols - I'm presuming you are referring to Matlock?
I don't think there is a case to answer really, everything they ever did was better without Sid.
2.) Joy Division - I never really rated New Order as much as JD, but they can't really be compared 'like for like'.
3.)Genesis - I may be predictable, but I stopped liking Genesis when Gabriel left, it was his quirky influence which, although probably held them back commercially, was always the attraction for me.
4.) Pink Floyd - I accept they went on to bigger and better things after Sid, but it would of been really interesting if he had held it together - I reckon the Floyd would of gone from strength to weirder strength.
5.) AC/DC - Just not true, they were magnificent with Bon Scott. I like BJ, but to say they improved after Bon is stretching it a bit in my opinion.
Good post tho....
Hmmm...
Pink Floyd: 'Piper at the Gates of Dawn' is a remarkable record and in its own way every bit as good as the more famous albums that followed.
AC/DC: With the exception of Back in Black, all of their greatest records were made with Bon Scott.
Genesis: I think both the Gabriel and Collins eras were decidedly patchy; both incarnations were capable of sublime moments and utter garbage.
Pistols: Sid Vicious was a cretin, Glen Matlock wasn't.
Joy Division: I don't like them or New Order so I can't give a reasoned opinion.
Got two for you...
The Buzzcocks after Howard Devoto, and Depeche Mode after Vince Clarke.
Manic Street Preachers
Design For Life was their pinnacle as was the Everything Must Go album.
Good call!
I completely agree.
Nah
The Holy Bible remains their finest hour.
I agree with New Order
Music is often more interesting when it manages to straddle different moods. By bringing dance music into the equation they added a hedonistic, euphoric aspect to the goth-like, bleak, elegaic thing they did. And they made good pop singles. The records were just more surprising, and therefore stood up better to repeat listening than JD's. I often listen to New Order, but don't feel inclined to revisit JD.
I feel the opposite
I loved and to an extent still love NO, but I do feel that a lot of their material has dated, particularly the group of singles in the mid-80's that seemed to mark a temporary loss of direction (State Of The Nation, Shellshock etc.). I also think that whilst they were perhaps more musically diverse than JD, the different producers they used at the time (eg Arthur Baker, Stephen Hague) also dates the sound.
I now find that the peerless Martin Hannett production on the JD songs gives them a timeless, classical quality which never fails to be rich and rewarding on repeated listening.
Fleetwood Mac
Fleetwood Mac
May I present evidence to the contrary...
Much as I love Rumours,
there really wasn't any transcendent genius type output after Greenie left.
Have you
Stopped Taking your medication ?.I'm with you,Patrick.
as far as I'm concerned
there are two bands 'Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac' and 'Fleetwood Mac'. Love Greeny's band and the later incarnation does nowt for me despite having a couple of key members intact.
Hmm
Bit harsh Mr Beard, having a pop at my mental health simply because we have differing tastes.
To my ears, the pop nous of the Nicks / Buckingham era knocks Green's hoary old blues rock into a cocked hat.
Gah!
Double post.
Got one for you
Jethro Tull, after Mick Abrahams left. Ian Anderson IS Jethro Tull now. The band are folk/prog rock instead of blues rock on the first album.
Mild pedantry and disagreement
Joy Division ceased when Ian Curtis died. I don't have any opinion on whether New Order were better or not, but it doesn't make any sense to say Joy Division were better after his death.
I disagree on the Sex Pistols (I'm assuming you mean Matlock.) The tunes pretty much disappeared after he left.
And I disagree on AC/DC - I saw them with Bon Scott, one of the most charismatic singers I've ever seen, and he was also great on record. They've made good records since then (especially "Back In Black") but they don't swing any more, and they have become even more pantomime. (Panto was always there, but it seriously outweighs their rock and roll since Brian Johnson joined)
Mmmm
This Was Jethro Tull was a superb album! Ian Anderson bloody ruined that band, so he did!
The manics' 'genius' was still *in* the band
as much as he'd ever been when they wrote the album that Design For Life was on.
pistols - i meant rotten not
pistols - i meant rotten not matlock - when sid was the star, they were the perfect cartoon punk band mclaren always wanted and my way is the greatest cover version ever (or is that classed as a solo)
agree with buzzcocks not depeche - could put human league in once ware jibbed it and post eno roxy too
Although...
was Eno thought of as the 'genius' in Roxy? 'Boffin' I'll give you, but genius...nah!
Roxy never bettered
'For Your Pleasure' ... and I write as the owner of the entire catalogue on vinyl and on CD in little replica sleeves.
Ferry agrees
- but Eno reckons Stranded is the best Roxy album...and, of course, he wasn't on it!
obviously
Little Feat after Lowell George's death.
(To avoid being stoned to death by the Massive, this is a pop at the awful and pointless nonsense put out by "Little Feat" since the mid 80s)
How about
HJH after Paul died and was replaced by his brother/aliens/KGB agents etc ?
And Bon Scott might have been many things, but I'm not sure about 'genius'. 'Soul', 'energy', 'personality' perhaps....
Sorry
... absolutely disagree with your last 4 suggestions. In fact I could not disagree more.
.
Something weird happened there... As you were
Live Forever Hitmakers
Oasis were a shadow of themselves after Guigs and Bonehead were shown the door - you go figure, do the math etc...
The Beatles weren't the same
The Beatles weren't the same after Pete Best left.
Brian Poole
and The Tremeloes.
The Sisters
weren't the same after Hussey, that's a fact
better or worse is debatable, round my way
Disco anecdote
That reminds me of when I was at a Disco (I believe that was the term) at University. The Sisters of Mercy were throbbing out through the speakers (Dr Jeep if memory serves) when there was suddenly a power cut and all was dark and silent. Out of the dry iced mist came the shot "Wayne Hussey has left the building". Oh how we laughed.
Of the original premise I'd probably only agree with Pink Floyd.