The latest edition of a rival publication includes a great article about rock albums whereby the bands who produced them clearly felt the need to dabble and piss about a bit, thus losing the plot (and sales).

It's a fine selection: Queen "Hot Space", The Stones "Dirty Work", Kiss "The Elder", Dylan and the Dead, ELP "Love Beach", Genesis "Calling all Stations", Black Sabbath "Born Again", AC/DC "Fly on the Wall" and, of course, Lou Reed/Metallica "Lulu".

There are hundreds of others I'm sure.

Any thoughts, including on duff albums outside the classic rock/ metal field, where the artist or band said "hope you like our new direction folks" and were generally greeted with the middle finger extended northwards?

I thought this was the sort of question that the Word Massive will handle with their customary objectivity and capacity for learned observation.

I was prompted to start a thread about the issue of new bands breaking new ground by an interesting letter in a rival magazine (one that specialises in Classic Rock!)

The correspondent had gone through last year's editions and noted how many times album reviews of new bands had criticised them for not breaking new ground or being particularly innovative. He argued that there is sufficient merit in bands sticking to a tried and tested formula to deliver what their fans expect. And that reviewers should stop criticising them just because they haven't been particularly experimental.

He illustrates his point observing that Clapton's best stuff was his early blues rock output rather than, say, his 80s pop material and rammed home his point with a wry comment that if Eric produced an opera for cats and dogs and delivered it through a 100 piece kazoo orchestra it might indeed be experimental but he probably wouldn't buy it.

I must say I see his point. I read a review of the new album by Irish hard rockers The Answer. The reviewer had praised the record but then closed his review saying that next time they should aim for something a bit more ambitious. What tosh I thought at the time. The Answer are obviously influenced by Free, AC/DC, The Faces etc and ballsy hard rock'n'roll is their trade mark. And as long as they go on producing I'll probably support them (and not just because they are a good bunch of Irish lads).

Anyway what do the massive think?

Do you usually prefer bands that push the envelope or those that retread old formulas?

Would you necessarily fault a band for sticking to their guns and staying within their comfort zone?

Are rock reviewers full of the brown stuff at times when it comes to struggling new bands? Any recent examples of reviews that made you say to yourself "bollox, your wrong mate, get yourself a guitar and let's see how you get on"?

oh, and I nearly forgot, if Eric Clapton were to do an opera for cats and dogs with a kazoo orchestra would you buy it?

here is The Answer doing Rose Tattoo's "Rock'n'roll Outlaw" for those of you who, like me, don't always need experiment and innovation to get through a record.

Sorry to start another thread that involves pulling stuff off Youtube but they are such fun. Occasionally chat show sequences are inserted into threads on other subjects to illustrate a point and/or reflect on a particular celebrity's work and views. So let's have a self standing thread devoted to them.

I trawl Youtube now and again if an old TV chat moment springs to mind. In my youth I watched a lot of Parky, Aspel, Wogan, Des O'Connor, clice Anderson and J Ross etc and always looked forward to the likes of Kenneth Williams, Spike Milligan or Oliver Reed on the telly after a hard day dodging the school gangsters.

Here are a few interviews that made me laugh at the time. What's your favourite moments?

The other thread about crap lyrics was spot on but getting me down. So let's have something a bit more uplifting. It's taken as read that Bob Dylan, Lennon/MacCartney, Ray Davies, Pete Townshend, Bowie, Shane Magowan, Morrisey, to name but a few, wrote the greatest lyrics in rock. Any others?

Lets start with Lemmy's finest

If you like to gamble, I tell you I'm your man
You win some, lose some, it's - all - the same to me
The pleasure is to play, it makes no difference what you say
I don't share your greed, the only card I need is
The Ace Of Spades
The Ace Of Spades

Playing for the high one, dancing with the devil,
Going with the flow, it's all a game to me,
Seven or Eleven, snake eyes watching you,
Double up or quit, double stakes or split,
The Ace Of Spades
The Ace Of Spades

You know I'm born to lose, and gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby,
I don't wanna live forever,
And don't forget the joker!

Pushing up the ante, I know you've got to see me,
Read 'em and weep, the dead man's hand again,
I see it in your eyes, take one look and die,
The only thing you see, you know it's gonna be,
The Ace Of Spades
The Ace Of Spades

The interesting thread about shocking movie moments has prompted me to start one about those moments that have the opposite effect. The ones that bring laughter, a contented sigh, a restoration in your faith in humanity or some other life affirming emotional impulse.

We've all seen James Stewart in "It's a Wonderful Life" when he realises the townspeople have rallied round to help him out of his debt problem and we've given the thumbs up when Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman are reunited on the beach in "Shawshank Redemption". These are timeless classics.

The one movie that moves me every time I see it is "Amelie" the enchanting tale of a young girl motivated to bring a little ray of sunshine to the lives of her friends and neighbours. I can't find the right superlatives to describe Audrey Tatou's performance in that film. Every expression in those beautiful dark eyes and interaction with the other characters keeps me grinning like an idiot for 2 hours. Why is that? I'm a 45 y old bloke who listens to hard rock and drinks like a fish for gawd sake. Get a grip man.

Anyway, thats just me, any other uplifting moments?

Looking back over the years, particularly during the 1970s, its amazing how the boundaries of rock music were pushed in all sorts of directions both visually and musically, often through gimmicks, exhibitionism and downright weirdness. And I think its fair to say that, aside from the likes of Frank Zappa, most of that innovation and progression came from these fair islands.

So who were the most eccentric and brilliant rock stars that moved you then and continue to do so now when you look back?

I'll start with this wonderful footage of the Sensational Alex Harvey Band doing Delilah on the OGWT. Now you would never see this sort of stuff on e.g "Later with Jools". Why is music so boring compared to the golden era? Or maybe I'm wrong. The floor is open.

I was looking forward to watching it but I only got as far as a few minutes into Ross's opening routine of crap jokes and the usual smug self satisfied delivery. The man is such a talentless, overpaid pillock. Anyone else switch off too?

Well you know the drill.

Two fine chaps from these shores who conquered the world with their particular brands of heavy metal and who between them sum up everything that's good, wholesome and life enhancing in that particular genre.

One pioneered the industrial doom metal sound with a seminal 70s band, establishing the template for haunting apocalyptic vocals that's been imitated by legions ever since though rarely matched. The other launched his own brand of blues on speed turned up to eleven. One rewrote the textbook on how to deliver a full tilt metal arena show, biting bats, hanging dwarves and general OTT cocaine fuelled mayhem. The other played it loud and fast with head thrown back, standing astride his Rickenbacker and growling rusty nails down the mike at 130 plus decibels.

Both have made some classic heavy metal records and played with great guitar heroes and drummers. Both give excellent interviews to the press, devoid of any introspective self serving bullshit, instead packed full of dry working class wit and astute observations about music and life. Both have consumed more drugs than St Thomas hospital and drank more alcohol than George Best and Ollie Reed combined.

Which one do you prefer? I'm torn. Its a dilemma. But lets see. I'll go for Lemmy. He just has the edge over Ozzy, though only cos I've seen him live more times.

The floor is open.

and so said Percy in a recent interview with R Stone, which seems to have created all sorts of fan commentary in the blogosphere.

Now where do I stand on all this? Well, I didn't see the Zep show at the O2. However, I've watched a reasonable bootleg DVD and it wasnt a bad effort at all though I still detected some unease in Plant's body language and in his phrasing of the songs. And when I was watching it I reached my own conclusion, which the man has since confirmed to R Stone. Zep is his wonderful legacy to the world but he has moved on and he simply doesn't want to stand up in tight jeans shaking his lion's mane and squealing "squeeze my lemon and let the juice run down my leg" to people like me. And to be honest, he's dead right. Good luck Robert for putting all this nonsense to bed once and for all and setting the record straight.

But what do the Massive think?

On the way to The Word London mingle last night I had a bite to eat in a pizza place on Villiers St along with my good friend and fellow blogger Baskerville Oldface. Music was played through speakers in the rather pristine facilities downstairs. During mid-urination I was treated to Julie London's rendition of the sublime "Cry me a River", which, I should point out to our male bloggers especially, greatly affected the speed at which I was able to complete my business (basically I burst out laughing at the urinal).

In the pub later it got us thinking about other possible connections between rock'n'roll and this particular bodily function. We came up with a few ideas, hence this thread, and would be grateful for other contributions.

Even Flow - Pearl Jam
Territorial Pissings - Nirvana

anything by Slash

I am halfway through Nick Kent's thoroughly entertaining compilation of rock mag articles "The Dark Stuff" and have just ordered his second book "Apathy for The Devil" from Amazon. I was very struck by the standard of Kent's writing; he really gets to the heart of his subjects. I have just got as far as his rather bitchy, though still reverential, chapter on life with The Stones.

I read rock bios now and again - the most recent being Slash's excellent account of life with Axl, heroin, fame fortune and being a guitar slinger - but Kent's book has got me interested in heavy duty rock journalism written by people who have actually lived the life on the road with these characters.

What do The Massive recommend I read next and why?

Here's one for the sages amongst you to offer some collective wisdom. I've booked myself a ticket to watch the Roger Waters The Wall jamboree at the O2 next year. It occurred to me that for all sorts of reasons - some not entirely favourable to the man himself - Waters is a good example of an artist who while not a particularly exceptional virtuoso musician in his own right, nonetheless pushed the boundaries of rock right across the spectrum of musical arrangement, production, and artistic interpretation. Some of his projects and visions brought global success (middle period Floyd records - DSOTM and The Wall), some didn't (some of his solo output has been bizarre to say the least). You could say the same about Pete Townsend for reasons that needn't detain us here. So how about a poll of top 10 rock visionaries. Here's mine.Views?

1. Bob Dylan
2. McCartney and Lennon
3. Jimi Hendrix
4. Pete Townsend
5. Jimmy Page
6. Roger Waters
7. David Bowie
8. Jeff Beck
9. Brian Wilson
10.Ian Anderson

The last three are probably interchangeable with people like Jagger/Richards, the ELP trio, Brian Eno, Robert Fripp, The Edge, Kurt Cobain, Peter Gabriel, Johnny Marr - even Ian Curtis and John Lydon. You can see how I struggled a bit with my list.

so news today that a classic early 70s classic/blues rock band is reuniting this summer with a pop/soul singer from the 1980s on vocals and a bass player from an iconic 70s punk band (Glenn Matlock).

Now, I'm a broadminded guy but firstly, am I the only one smelling a whiff of cash incentive here and secondly, what would be the point of me going to see this band?

And shouldn't they be called something like Simply the Face Pistols or, perhaps, The Sex Red Faces.

I went to see Limehouse Lizzy last night, probably the best Thin Lizzy Tribute band these days. As I was watching them it struck me that as long as they can pull it off in terms of musicianship these tribute bands are such good entertainment mainly because the music itself is so timeless. Lynott was a wonderful lyricist and his velvet voice blended with that swaggering twinned guitar sound to produce some of the best rock'n'roll music ever recorded. There is something for everyone in a Thin Lizzy album, especially the classics of the mid 70s, Jailbreak, Fighting and Johnny the Fox and, of course, Live and Dangerous. Phil and the boys delivered love songs and ballads for the ladies (Still in love with You, Dancing in the Moonlight) and up tempo rockers for the lads about fighting, jail, outlaws, alibis, opium trails, partying and life on the road.

I saw them on the Thunder and Lightning tour in 1983 in Belfast and of course by then the dream was turning into a drug dependent nightmare for poor Phil who would be dead within a couple of years. Scott Gorham said recently, in an interview on Planet Rock, that Phil seemed to take heart from Gorham's own heroin withdrawal programme in the early 80s and tried to clean himself up but it got him in the end. Such a tragedy as he was a brilliant talent who had so much more to offer his fans and the business in general.

And Phil's music still stands up today because he gave you memorable tunes, melodies and his songs articulate the essence of the rock'n'roll dream in a way that few other bands can carry off. We should remember him for that.

Here's the classic line up (Lynott, Downey, Gorham and Robertson) doing Don't Believe a Word.

A thread devoted to the primeval rock'n'roll of Iggy, whom I had the pleasure of seeing live with the Stooges a few years ago (when Ron Asheton was still alive). Iggy and the Stooges were the real deal and their legacy lives on in punk, metal, goth and several other genres where authenticity and street attitude counts for more than polished production and musical versatility. Indeed, I'd rate Funhouse as one of the best US rock albums ever produced, a document of the cocaine, fuelled, hedonistic nihilism that Iggy represented in the early 70s. Anyone else into a bit of Iggy now and again? Here he is doing what he does best.